Mailing List Archive

Mailing List: cavers

Banner Advert

Message Display

From: trey@ne*.co* (Trey)
To: <ScottBonis@ao*.co*>, <cavers@cavers.com>
Subject: Re: Cave dive planning with scooter
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 06:20:48 -0400
Scott, you either leave double the amount of gas it
normally takes you to scooter ( i.e., drop safeties
for each diver at each stage drop) assuming you are
prepared to tow each other, or you merely put in the
amount of gas it takes each diver to swim, which you
will have to figure based on where you can see the
line swimming from. Obviously, the best bet is to be
able to pull across the floor, even though it is
deeper.

We have to go with the double the scootering gas
method, and pick up full safeties , leaving the
partial stages, as there is no swimming out of Leon
Sinks, but then we also have a strict towing
protocol and always tow backup scooters, and we
never toast one scooter completely, but leave enough
juice to get back to the last one we dropped if the
current  one fails.

At 85 feet, you can get pretty liberal , but if it
were me, I would invest in two more Makos.
Propulsion ( speed ) is everything in a bad
situation.


From: ScottBonis@ao*.co* <ScottBonis@ao*.co*>
To: cavers@cavers.com <cavers@cavers.com>
Date: Monday, July 17, 2000 11:30 PM
Subject: Cave dive planning with scooter


>Hi Group,
>
>I have come across a question for which I would
really appreciate some help
>from those on the list who are experienced in
planning cave dives using
>scooters.  And I believe that there are probably
some of the most
>knowledgeable scooter divers in the world on this
list.  The question deals
>with how many safety cylinders I need to stage in a
cave and how close to
>each other they need to be.
>
>For our particular situation I can give the
following information, and if in
>the future this information should change, I can
adapt the answers we
>determine here now.  I am purposely using
conservative numbers because, as I
>have said in the past, I have this wide yellow
streak running down the center
>of my back when I'm diving in an unfamiliar
overhead situation.  And
>exploring our "New Little Cave" in Belize, when
we're more than a half mile
>in, is such a situation.
>
>The following figures might be typical to use.
>
>Scooters:    (2) Oceanic Mako's running @ 2 mph
with an 80 min. burn time.
>Divers:        Both divers with RMV's of 0.6
cu.ft./min. swimming @ 0.5 mph
>and 0.4 cu.ft./min. riding
>Back tanks: Double 85's filled to 3100 psi.
yielding 200 cu.ft.
>Drop Tanks: 80 cu.ft. aluminum's pumped to 3300
psi.
>Cave:          Drops rapidly and runs fairly
horizontal @ 70 - 85 ft., lets
>say no current for now.
>Deco gas:    Oxygen tanks can easily be staged at
the cave entrance.
>
>The scooter cave dive planning rules with which I
am familiar require
>assuming both scooters die at the point of deepest
penetration, requiring a
>swimming exit.  And subsequently the dive becomes a
typical cave dive, so I
>must have enough gas for both myself and my buddy
to exit.  The planning for
>this, should it be felt that this is the correct
approach, is straightforward.
>
>But if we have staged tanks as we plan to, they
might be, say, 1,500 ft.
>apart.  And I'm interested in opinions as to how
many tanks need to be at
>each station.  I assume our planning would be such
that we could get to the
>first set of tanks with 1/2 of our back gas
remaining, but then do we need to
>have 2 or three tanks waiting?  And at each station
along the way
>subsequently, do we need 2 or three tanks?  Or has
it been found acceptable
>to consider our remaining back gas to be enough of
a safety factor in case
>there is a problem with one of the drop tanks.
(Seems reasonable to me, but
>I'm just checking.)  I feel that I can't plan on
our support divers, being
>cave students I certified about a year ago,
penetrating much deeper than 1/4
>mile into the cave.  And since this is not a
supported project, most of the
>money I can spare has gone into buying the two
Mako's, so I can't afford any
>more right now.
>
>My guess, from the GPS readings of the cenotes with
which we are familiar, is
>that we probably will not need to penetrate more
than 1.5 to 2 miles before
>we come out another entrance.  But as this is only
what I assume (which can
>easily make an ASS of U and ME), I'd like to get my
contingency planning in
>order.  I realize that the deeper penetrations, if
necessary, may necessitate
>additional planning to accommodate the scooters'
burn times.
>
>So any thoughts on planning this type of dive would
be gratefully
>appreciated.  I figure that there is probably more
experience with scooter
>usage in cave diving on this list then just about
any other place with which
>I am familiar.  Thanks a bunch for your time.
>
>Take care and safe diving,     Scott
>

Navigate by Author: [Previous] [Next] [Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject: [Previous] [Next] [Subject Search Index]

[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]

[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]