Please take this nonsense off-line if you want to discuss politics.

Jack

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe C [mailto:polarbea@sa*.ne*]
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 12:26 PM
To: Joel Markwell
Cc: Techdiver; Cavers
Subject: Re: Smoking & Smokeless


How about the gov't. subsidies?  Why not refuse to subsidize tobacco
that is grown for the purpose of human consumption?  (I understand
tobacco has other uses.)
I can't fathom how a gov't. that whines about the medical expenditures
caused by tobacco use will still subsidize it.  The politicians are
sometimes worse the "big tobacco".

Joe


Joel Markwell wrote:
> 
> I just had someone point out to me privately that I should step back and
> look at this comment:
> 
> >I look at smoking as a disease. I think it should be illegal
> 
> And he asked if we should outlaw pneumonia next. Good point.
> 
> Easy enough. Excessive drinking is often a disease. We control it. You
can't
> drink and drive. You can't be publicly drunk. You can't give alcohol to
> minors.
> 
> Heroin is also considered to be an addiction and therefore a disease. I'm
> sure you would have no problem with its illegality or at least control.
> Control. Perhaps that is a better word than "illegal." Tobacco should be a
> controlled substance like heroine and cocaine.
> 
> Of course, then we get into the war on drugs which is a complete
clusterf--k
> and one of the worst abuses of individual liberties one can think of. I
> didn't say this is going to be an easy problem to solve. It will take
> creative thinking and a lot of resolve - and time.
> 
> But we're not helpless, what falls apart we can put together with the
right
> effort. How do we get there? I think that we're on the path. The efforts
to
> characterize smoking for what it is. To tell people the truth: that it's a
> poison. To drive those who manipulate its effects to addict their
customers
> out of business. Where we can go from there we can discuss.
> 
> But certainly divers shouldn't smoke. That just seems like good sense.
> 
> Someone else asked about smokeless tobacco. It's just as bad if not worse.
> Here's a webpage that seems to sum it up pretty well:
> 
> http://www.entassociates.com/smokeless.htm
> 
> Read the section labeled "Effects of Smokeless Tobacco." I thought the
> sentence that read, "Constricted blood vessels: nicotine constricts the
> blood vessels, slowing down the circulation of oxygen-rich blood to the
> organs." Probably not a good thing when breathing compressed air and mixed
> gases.
> 
> Of course, you could always say that nicotine's positive effect is that it
> could retard the onset of oxygen toxicity. Ya right. Then there's also the
> part about higher blood pressure and irregular heart beats.
> 
> Those circulatory effects are the same for smoke and smokeless, BTW. I
think
> the answer is still, "DUH!"
> 
> Ya'll do know that the Marlboro man died of lung cancer, right?
> 
> Later,
> 
> JoeL
> 
> Here are some other webpages:
> 
> Some lovely cancer photos:
> 
> http://www.quittobacco.com/Facts/effects.htm
> 
> A quiz:
> 
> http://www.adha.org/oralhealth/cancerquiz.htm
> 
> Samples of weekly warnings that you can have sent to your smoking or
dipping
> friends:
> 
> http://www.weeklywarning.com/sample2.htm
> 
> And general cancer risks for smoking and smokeless tobaccy from the NIH:
> 
> http://rex.nci.nih.gov/NCI_Pub_Interface/raterisk/risks67.html
> 
> Note this paragraph:
> 
> Among male cigarette smokers, the risk of lung cancer is more than 2,000
> percent higher than among male nonsmokers; for women, the risks were
> approximately 1,200 percent greater. Lung cancer is the single largest
cause
> of cancer mortality among both men and women and accounts for more than
one
> in every four cancer deaths nationally in the U.S.
> 
> --
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