HERE is the new question: YOUR son is 19, he is a diver, he can do any of
the
usual stuff, he is a bad ass, but has never been cave trained. I am asking
you, if he said, "DAD, I am going to take cave, would you
recommend Bill Rennaker?", what would your answer be NOW?

Don


-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Gibson <gibsoll@sh*.uf*.ed*>
To: Don.Mcinnis@in*.co* <Don.Mcinnis@in*.co*>
Cc: cavers@cavers.com <cavers@cavers.com>
Date: Friday, June 16, 2000 5:48 PM
Subject: RE: heart disease


Don,
Two simple questions..two simple answers.
1)  I wouldn't let my children cave dive with anyone until they are old
enough to make a mature judgement call for themselves.  Remember that cave
diving is a HIGH RISK activity even with the best equipment and personel.
2)  Bill is very open about his medical condition.  Try asking him.  He
isn't hiding the facts from anyone nor denying his mortality...unlike some
who post to this list  :>)
Lee
>>> "Mcinnis, Don" <Don.Mcinnis@in*.co*> 06/16/00 04:55PM >>>
Lee,

I asked you two simple and straightforward questions and you tapdanced
around 1 and ignored the other. They are very simple to answer:

1. Would you trust your or your childrens' lives to a cave instructor with a
known heart condition?

2. Does the condition NEED to be disclosed up front?

Caveat emptor is one thing but you can't research someone's medical history.
It is like driving drunk: you are putting many people at risk and not just
yourself without them knowing anything about it.

Even if you don't answer, if you get this far then you at least have
something to think about. The other unwritten question is: If something
happens because of this will you be able to sleep at night?

Don

-----Original Message-----
From: Mcinnis, Don
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 10:06 AM
To: 'Lee Gibson'
Cc: cavers@cavers.com
Subject: RE: heart disease


Lee,

The question though is does he disclose his condition to prospective
students, etc up front? If not, then this is NOT FREE CHOICE. I'm sure you
can see the difference between the two.

Don

-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Gibson [mailto:gibsoll@sh*.uf*.ed*]
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 9:40 AM
To: Don.Mcinnis@in*.co*
Cc: cavers@cavers.com
Subject: RE: heart disease


Don,
That's one of the great things about this country.  We have  free choice
within the law...so you can choose what risk you find acceptable, which
training you deem as best, and how to spend your dollars and time. You can
express these views to others,possibly influencing their decisions.
However, you cannot force others to agree with you or impede another
individuals expression of their free choice.
Caveat Emptor.
Lee

>>> "Mcinnis, Don" <Don.Mcinnis@in*.co*> 06/16/00 09:11AM >>>
Lee

Cut through the bullshit and get to the point. Would you trust your life to
him and his condition? Would you trust your childrens' life to him? THAT is
the one and only issue here. Having a "mild chance" of a recurrance is one
thing in a low stress situation such as walking down the street. It's a
whole different matter back in a cave. ESPECIALLY when that not only
compromises his safety but also the lives of all his students on the dive
that are NOT TRAINED to handle the situation. It is a potential multiple
fatality waiting to happen.

Don

-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Gibson [mailto:gibsoll@sh*.uf*.ed*]
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 7:05 AM
To: cavers@cavers.com
Subject: heart disease


George,
Of course my post is "bullshit"...I didn't agree with you .  However you
missed the point.  I have not evaluated Bill's diving fitness or made
recommendations
for his future in diving.  I only reported what the trained expert in
cardiolgy determined in his evaluation and care of Mr. Rennaker.  If you
wish to call
Dr. Omeara and tell him that he is a "fuck up" thats your option.
BTW,  if you are going to quote me GIR or don't bother.
Lee

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