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Lee, let's take the Bill Clinton out of the question. We are not talking about giving head here, we are talking about a serious situation that money and bullshit is causing. Here is the new question: My son is 19, he is a diver, he can do any of the usual stuff, he is a bad ass, but has never been cave trained. I am asking you, if he said, "Dr Gibson, I am thinking about taking cave, would you recommend Bill Rennaker?", what would your answer be? Lee, forget that he is an idiot and a stroke, I am just talking from his physical standpoint. Obviously he would go to Jablonski's people as would anyone else who knew the difference, but what would you tell him, knowing the consequences of your mistake? -----Original Message----- From: Lee Gibson <gibsoll@sh*.uf*.ed*> To: Don.Mcinnis@in*.co* <Don.Mcinnis@in*.co*> Cc: cavers@cavers.com <cavers@cavers.com> Date: Friday, June 16, 2000 5:48 PM Subject: RE: heart disease Don, Two simple questions..two simple answers. 1) I wouldn't let my children cave dive with anyone until they are old enough to make a mature judgement call for themselves. Remember that cave diving is a HIGH RISK activity even with the best equipment and personel. 2) Bill is very open about his medical condition. Try asking him. He isn't hiding the facts from anyone nor denying his mortality...unlike some who post to this list :>) Lee >>> "Mcinnis, Don" <Don.Mcinnis@in*.co*> 06/16/00 04:55PM >>> Lee, I asked you two simple and straightforward questions and you tapdanced around 1 and ignored the other. They are very simple to answer: 1. Would you trust your or your childrens' lives to a cave instructor with a known heart condition? 2. Does the condition NEED to be disclosed up front? Caveat emptor is one thing but you can't research someone's medical history. It is like driving drunk: you are putting many people at risk and not just yourself without them knowing anything about it. Even if you don't answer, if you get this far then you at least have something to think about. The other unwritten question is: If something happens because of this will you be able to sleep at night? Don -----Original Message----- From: Mcinnis, Don Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 10:06 AM To: 'Lee Gibson' Cc: cavers@cavers.com Subject: RE: heart disease Lee, The question though is does he disclose his condition to prospective students, etc up front? If not, then this is NOT FREE CHOICE. I'm sure you can see the difference between the two. Don -----Original Message----- From: Lee Gibson [mailto:gibsoll@sh*.uf*.ed*] Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 9:40 AM To: Don.Mcinnis@in*.co* Cc: cavers@cavers.com Subject: RE: heart disease Don, That's one of the great things about this country. We have free choice within the law...so you can choose what risk you find acceptable, which training you deem as best, and how to spend your dollars and time. You can express these views to others,possibly influencing their decisions. However, you cannot force others to agree with you or impede another individuals expression of their free choice. Caveat Emptor. Lee >>> "Mcinnis, Don" <Don.Mcinnis@in*.co*> 06/16/00 09:11AM >>> Lee Cut through the bullshit and get to the point. Would you trust your life to him and his condition? Would you trust your childrens' life to him? THAT is the one and only issue here. Having a "mild chance" of a recurrance is one thing in a low stress situation such as walking down the street. It's a whole different matter back in a cave. ESPECIALLY when that not only compromises his safety but also the lives of all his students on the dive that are NOT TRAINED to handle the situation. It is a potential multiple fatality waiting to happen. Don -----Original Message----- From: Lee Gibson [mailto:gibsoll@sh*.uf*.ed*] Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 7:05 AM To: cavers@cavers.com Subject: heart disease George, Of course my post is "bullshit"...I didn't agree with you . However you missed the point. I have not evaluated Bill's diving fitness or made recommendations for his future in diving. I only reported what the trained expert in cardiolgy determined in his evaluation and care of Mr. Rennaker. If you wish to call Dr. Omeara and tell him that he is a "fuck up" thats your option. BTW, if you are going to quote me GIR or don't bother. Lee
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