on 6/10/00 7:50 AM, Christian Gerzner at christiang@pi*.co*.au* wrote: > PS Thanks JoeL, you read what I was *trying* to say correctly. :-) Christian, I think you have it generally right. One other diver mentioned taking aspirin and ibuprofen predive as a prophylactic and that's been widely done for many years. I take half an aspirin on the morning of a dive also although I've never heard of ibuprofen being used in the same way. The last theory that I heard was that aspirin, as a blood thinner and anticoagulant is commonly used and has been studied to prevent the reoccurrence of heart attack. It's also used during a heart attack. Aspirin, in part, acts on the platelets, it prevents platelets from making a compound called thromboxane A2, without which they can't stick together and easily form clots. The problem is that there are side effects, although for most people they aren't a problem: liver or kidney disease peptic ulcer other gastrointestinal disease or bleeding other bleeding problems allergy to aspirin use of alcohol Well, that last one might be a problem for some instructors. <g> There may be a more recent study, and "extreme" divers may have some evidence that I'm not aware of, but I'm not aware of any study or specific scientific discovery that proves aspirin's beneficial effects for diving except the notion that thinned blood that doesn't coagulate easily may help to reduce the risk of DCS. I'd be interested in seeing any study or research in this area. I've read of ibuprofen being used as a prophylactic for Cystic Fibrosis and Menstrual Cramps, but never as an anticoagulant or that it has any use in the prevention of DCS or any sort of barotrauma. What it does primarily do is reduce swelling, ibuprofen is able to block the production of chemicals called prostaglandins that cause inflammation. Inflammatory conditions, such as tendinitis, bursitis and the kind of arthritis where fluid and swelling occur in the joints, respond better to ibuprofen. As an analgesic, aspirin, acetaminophen and ibuprofen all work in varying doses. This brings me to the problems. In one study, data presented found an association between ibuprofen's use during chickenpox and necrotizing fasciitis (NF), but stopped short of saying the drug caused the infection. Rather, researchers said, the drug may mask the symptoms signaling the onset of NF. It is possible that because of its reputation, ibuprofen was given to sicker children with fever. By lowering fever and reducing inflammation, ibuprofen masked the beginning of the secondary symptoms, and appropriate treatment was delayed. This is the concern with any drug that relieves aches and pain: it could mask more serious symptoms and delay treatment. Scott mentions the use of ibuprofen AND aspirin as part of his "daily dive rituals." I'm not doubting its efficacy here, I would like to see how they have come to the conclusion that the benefits justify the risks. Using both drugs in tandem, with many of the risks overlapping, internal bleeding, liver damage & etc. seems even more of an overall concern, but I'd like to stress that I don't doubt that he has evolved a regimen that works for the type of diving that he does, I'd just like to see how they came to the conclusion that this routine was beneficial overall. Was this just divers not liking the aches and pains and finding that Ibuprofen worked to relieve them? In the case of aspirin, was it the notion that has been in the tech diving community for years that aspirin is a DCS prophylactic (despite the lack of any study or direct evidence that it's actually effective) and they take it "just in case" it works? Or do they have actual clinical proof that either of these drugs have a direct, beneficial effect for technical/gas divers that overweighs the potential risks? Finally, anyone taking aspirin, even low doses (the current recommendation to receive its full anti-coagulant effect is about 1/4 of a normal aspirin tab or a baby aspirin) is at risk of bleeding. Any trauma that results in bleeding might be uncontrolled if the diver is using aspirin. In fact, people who take aspirin to prevent secondary heart attack have to let their doctors know before any medical procedure, even dentistry. This is an interesting subject, one that I've followed somewhat, but not doing the long-duration gas dives that some of you are doing weekly, I may not be aware of studies and proof that you've found. I'd be interested in seeing the latest information in this area. Later, JoeL
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