Tom- Look at the instructor listings of GUE. These are the best of the best,
and most have told IANTD, NSS/CDS and the NACD to take a hike (they "were"
former members). They, just like me are getting sick and tired of the good
ol boy scam with no real cave instructors, or instruction to speak of. This
is my own opinion of course<g>.

Bruic


----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
To: <trey@ne*.co*>
Cc: <cavers@cavers.com>; 'Mike Bruic' <mikebruic@di*.co*>; 'Geoff
Kelafant' <kelafant@we*.co*>; Dan L. Volker <dan@sf*.co*>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: Madison diving


> Trey
>
> You do make your own rules no doubt .and change them to fit your needs
> whenever it suits you .No I will not shut up ..
>
> Your yelling and shouting Still did not answer the question and it is a
real
> question.
>
> Dan who I would think is GUE suggest that a Vo2 max test be required does
> GUE do it .
>
> Does GUE have any standards for instructors. .This is not a attack as you
> may call it  is just a  question that I think deserves an answer.
>
> Other than you saying GUE instructors are the best, how does the world
know
> the instructor qualifications if there are no instructor standards.
>
> Has anyone on this list seen a GUE instructor standard?
>
> Does anyone know what it takes to be a GUE instructor?
>
> What are the fitness requirements?
>
> What are the experience requirements?
>
> The diver standards look good but that still does not answer the question
as
> to instructor standards
>
> George how about answering thequestions instead of shouting and saying
> things like shut up, You of all people yell about instructor quality so
you
> must be concerned as to GUE instructor standards
>
> Respectfully yours,
> Tom Mount
> CEO IANTD World HQ
> http://www.iantd.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
> To: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
> Cc: Dan L. Volker <dan@sf*.co*>; 'Geoff Kelafant' <kelafant@we*.co*>;
> 'Mike Bruic' <mikebruic@di*.co*>; <cavers@cavers.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 6:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Madison diving
>
>
> > Tom, we make the rules. You shut up and listen. I don't see any of your
> > bozo strokes doing anything that any of the GUE guys do on a regular
> > basis.
> >
> > GUE is way out of your league, and you do not need to be yapping about
> > it.
> >
> > Tom Mount wrote:
> > >
> > > Dan
> > > Does GUE do it??
> > >
> > > Does GUE have any renewal physical requirements?
> > >
> > > There web page does not list instructor or instructor renewal
> requirements
> > > so the question is for real, no one knows what GUE has for instructor
> > > prerequisites or renewals
> > >
> > > Respectfully yours,
> > > Tom Mount
> > > CEO IANTD World HQ
> > > http://www.iantd.com
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Dan L. Volker <dan@sf*.co*>
> > > To: <trey@ne*.co*>; 'Geoff Kelafant' <kelafant@we*.co*>
> > > Cc: 'Tom Mount' <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>; 'Mike Bruic'
> > > <mikebruic@di*.co*>; <cavers@cavers.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 4:37 PM
> > > Subject: RE: Madison diving
> > >
> > > > Sounds like a good time to discuss MANDATORY VO2 Max testing, with
> > > > instructor minimums around 30 ml/kg of body weight.
> > > > Sure the test would be a cost and a time problem for some, but when
> these
> > > > instructors are "Responsible" for the lives they lead into a cave,
> this is
> > > > the least they can do to certify a likelihood they will be still be
> alive
> > > to
> > > > lead the students back after each dive. From what I have heard about
> > > > Rennaker, it sounds like he would be closer to 5 or 10 ml./kg if he
> had no
> > > > heart condition, and now that he has had an incident ( even though
> > > > supposedly fixed) , he may be lower still.
> > > >
> > > > Dan Volker
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Trey [mailto:trey@ne*.co*]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 3:41 PM
> > > > To: Geoff Kelafant
> > > > Cc: Tom Mount; Mike Bruic; cavers@cavers.com
> > > > Subject: Re: Madison diving
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Geoff, good points, obvoiusly Bruic is dead right and standing up
for
> > > > it, and Tom is dead wrong and once again proving it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Geoff Kelafant wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > What absurdity.  "Right to work", ADA and all that other stuff
> doesn't
> > > > apply
> > > > > if someone isn't otherwise qualified for the job in particular.
> > > Actually,
> > > > > since none of the instructors really "work" for IANTD/CDS etc.
> anyway, I
> > > > > don't think any of this really applies.
> > > > >
> > > > > If it did, you would need to provide the examining physician with
a
> > > > detailed
> > > > > description of what his "job" actually was and what the physical
> demands
> > > > > are.  In this case the physician should be someone well versed in
> diving
> > > > > medicine and the particular physical demands involved, not some
guy
> who
> > > is
> > > > > getting the wool pulled over his eyes or practices in the local
doc
> in a
> > > > > box.  I'm in the occupational medicine business and one thing I've
> > > learned
> > > > > is that patients are rarely fully truthful when their "career" is
on
> the
> > > > > line.  Most physicians are poorly prepared or unwilling to address
> > > > > occupational issues and even fewer have even a vague idea of the
> > > cardiac,
> > > > > pulmonary and other stresses unique to diving.  A simple "note
from
> the
> > > > > doctor", a doctor whose qualifications are totally unknown to you
is
> > > > simply
> > > > > unacceptable.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am interested in whatever a "fitness renewal program" entails.
Is
> it
> > > > > simply a note or form?  Do they actually have to do something like
a
> > > > stress
> > > > > test, running, biking,  swimming, etc.  Hmm... must be the IANTD
> > > > instructors
> > > > > I've seen were midcycle or in the remedial fitness program.
> > > > >
> > > > > When one of your instructors has a terminal event during training
> and
> > > > takes
> > > > > someone with him, I wonder what will happen?
> > > > >
> > > > > Geoff Kelafant MD MSPH FACOEM
> > > > > Board Certified Occupational Medicine
> > > > > US Navy Diving Medical Officer
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
> > > > > To: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
> > > > > Cc: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>; <cavers@cavers.com>
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 10:48 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Madison diving
> > > > >
> > > > > > Tom, this is the kind of duck I would expect from you. Rennaker
is
> a
> > > > > > ridiculous fat slob - he just had a heart attack ( gee, I wonder
> > > why? ),
> > > > > > and his "right to work" is C R A P. The asshole retired from his
> > > factory
> > > > > > job over ten years ago, and is teaching diving on the side.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Nice try, Tom.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You and your organization do not know what the the word
"fitness"
> > > means,
> > > > > > and the fact is that I will bet you that Rennaker's heart rate
> will
> > > not
> > > > > > drop the requisite bare minimum 12 beats per minute in one
minute
> from
> > > > > > exertion levels that is the known marker standard for predicting
> a
> > > > > > reasonable risk of less chance of a heart attack, let alone the
20
> bpm
> > > > > > "comfort" level for a low risk , or the 60 bpm that my heart
rate
> > > drops.
> > > > > > Forget that he is a fat slob who already had a heart attack.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If Rennaker kills somebody now, you , the "doctor" and everyone
> else
> > > is
> > > > > > going to lose - it is too obvious that this guy does not need to
> be
> > > > > > doing this any more, and in my opinion, he never did.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Prospective dive students have a "right" to a fit instructor,
Tom,
> and
> > > > > > you are behaving badly for tolerating and promoting this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tom Mount wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To both of you
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > All instructors with IANTD have to complete a MD medical and
be
> > > signed
> > > > > off
> > > > > > > anytime their is a major illness. Bill has completed that.
Bill
> also
> > > > did
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > fitness swim requirements as well.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now I'm sure if you would like to legally challenge the doctor
> for
> > > > > signing
> > > > > > > him off you can do so. But remember there as a right to work
law
> and
> > > > you
> > > > > may
> > > > > > > wind up at the end of a lawsuit for you efforts from the MD
and
> > > Bill.
> > > > > > > We are bound to accept the determination of the MD as to
Bill's
> > > > fitness.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Second IANTD unlike any other agency has a fitness renewal
> program
> > > as
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > know Mike and each instructor must complete it to be renewed.
No
> > > other
> > > > > > > agency including GUE does this.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is BCC'ed to our lawyer and insurance.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Respectfully yours,
> > > > > > > Tom Mount
> > > > > > > CEO IANTD World HQ
> > > > > > > http://www.iantd.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
> > > > > > > To: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>
> > > > > > > Cc: <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2000 6:14 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Madison diving
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mike Bruic wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > George, here is a copy of the letter that went out to
IANTD,
> > > NACD,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > NSS/CDS. It was sent certified, return receipt, and I have
> the
> > > > > > > > > acknowledgments of receipt in my files. When Rennaker does
> > > > fuck-up,
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > hope
> > > > > > > > > this letter will help any attorney crucify these assholes.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bruic
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     Mike, you are pissing in the wind with Mount and the
rest
> of
> > > > these
> > > > > > > > hand-holders. Send it to his insurance agent and to his
> attorney,
> > > > Bill
> > > > > > > > Turbeville. Turbeville and the insurance company will make
him
> do
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > right thing. I'll get you the insurance agency address.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
>
>

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