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You know what??  George has actually saved my life several times and I've
never even dove with him.

He IS the most valuable source of diving information period.  He has done
more for this sport than any other person.  I'm sorry if you offended by
him; maybe you should listen instead of putting up some macho bull crap
defense.

Your proposed list sounds about as informative as rec.scuba or the aol
forums.

-  Bill Lais

----- Original Message -----
From: <Hazel.Barton@UC*.ed*>
To: <cavers@cavers.com>
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2000 2:15 PM
Subject: A New List


> I'm tired of the way that folks can no longer use this list to make
> announcements, discuss problems they are having, and asked for help
without
> having someone leap down their throat - throwing insults at them and
> generally censoring the list by intimidation.
>
> The idea of the net was to allow free exchange of ideas, allow folks who
are
> many miles away to learn from each other. We are a relatively small group,
> in a highly specialized sport. Everyone has their own ideas, and when
shared
> within the community, can be integrated without pressure and actually lead
> to progress.
>
> The aim of the 'net' was not as a soapbox for any one person or group.
>
> It's time for a change.
>
> I have asked my friend Jim Olsen, who has mediated the dry-caver mailing
> list (with over 3000 subscribers from around the world) for the past 6
> years, if he would be interested in moderating a new list for cave divers
> (he is an excellent diver). His response was as follows:
>
> >If there is a large group of people that want to start a different list,
>     then let me know.  I don't want to jump into a 'competition' thing.
But
> I
>     agree, from reading some of the archives, it does seem like the list
is
>     poorly run, and run for alterior motives than distributing
information.
> So
>     if there is enough of a demand, and people understand that it would be
> run
>     like the cavers digest, let me know.  That would mean all of the flame
> bait
>     posts would be deleted and the list would be sent out only in digest
> format
>     weekly.  But I need to see that there is a large body of people who
are
>     currently on the list that would like to see it run elsewhere.  Then
it
>     doesn't become 'empire' building and helps reduce the politics of the
>     situation a bit.
>
> This is not censorship, Jim runs the list with only the following rules:
> 1) The information has to relate to the field of cave diving
> 2) No cave locations are listed
> 3) No deliberate flaming or insults are allowed
>
> Jim maintains the mailing list, you email everything to him - so you don't
> get 30 error messages every time you post something and you receive all
the
> postings in one Email, once a week. When you unsubscribe, you'll actually
be
> removed from the list! AND no more spam mailings.
>
> So.... Who is interested? If we can get a good base together, then this is
> something positive that can happen with Cave Diving and the internet. Once
> we get established, announcements can be made in other arenas to really
> spread the word - a safe place for the exchange of ideas and the
> distribution of information.
>
>  If you are interested, Email me with the title 'New List' and I'll
forward
> everything to Jim.
>
> Regards, happy caving and freedom of speech!
>
> Hazel
> NSS 38664
>

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