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Hazel:

I generally manage to get my point across when I post while still being polite
about how I do it.  Many others on the list share your dislike of the manner in
which messages are sometimes presented.  However, I also think that most of the
folks who stay on the list get a thicker skin regarding that issue, and they
read the important information, regardless of how it is presented.

Creating a new list with the restrictions you want to impose will not serve its
purpose.  I already receive too many mailing lists and have no wish to add
another.  Free speech also includes the right to avoid hearing opinions you do
not want to hear.  Make judicious use of the delete key if necessary.

If you go to another list, you may find a kindler, gentler discussion, but I
doubt it will be as informative, thought provoking, or useful to you.

JS

In a message dated Mon, 24 Jan 2000  3:31:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Hazel.Barton@UC*.ed* writes:

> I'm tired of the way that folks can no longer use this list to make
> announcements, discuss problems they are having, and asked for help without
> having someone leap down their throat - throwing insults at them and
> generally censoring the list by intimidation. 
> 
> The idea of the net was to allow free exchange of ideas, allow folks who are
> many miles away to learn from each other. We are a relatively small group,
> in a highly specialized sport. Everyone has their own ideas, and when shared
> within the community, can be integrated without pressure and actually lead
> to progress. 
> 
> The aim of the 'net' was not as a soapbox for any one person or group.
> 
> It's time for a change.
> 
> I have asked my friend Jim Olsen, who has mediated the dry-caver mailing
> list (with over 3000 subscribers from around the world) for the past 6
> years, if he would be interested in moderating a new list for cave divers
> (he is an excellent diver). His response was as follows:
> 
> >If there is a large group of people that want to start a different list, 
>     then let me know.  I don't want to jump into a 'competition' thing.  But
> I 
>     agree, from reading some of the archives, it does seem like the list is 
>     poorly run, and run for alterior motives than distributing information.
> So 
>     if there is enough of a demand, and people understand that it would be
> run 
>     like the cavers digest, let me know.  That would mean all of the flame
> bait 
>     posts would be deleted and the list would be sent out only in digest
> format 
>     weekly.  But I need to see that there is a large body of people who are 
>     currently on the list that would like to see it run elsewhere.  Then it 
>     doesn't become 'empire' building and helps reduce the politics of the 
>     situation a bit. 
> 
> This is not censorship, Jim runs the list with only the following rules:
> 1) The information has to relate to the field of cave diving
> 2) No cave locations are listed
> 3) No deliberate flaming or insults are allowed
> 
> Jim maintains the mailing list, you email everything to him - so you don't
> get 30 error messages every time you post something and you receive all the
> postings in one Email, once a week. When you unsubscribe, you'll actually be
> removed from the list! AND no more spam mailings.
> 
> So.... Who is interested? If we can get a good base together, then this is
> something positive that can happen with Cave Diving and the internet. Once
> we get established, announcements can be made in other arenas to really
> spread the word - a safe place for the exchange of ideas and the
> distribution of information.
> 
>  If you are interested, Email me with the title 'New List' and I'll forward
> everything to Jim.
> 
> Regards, happy caving and freedom of speech!
> 
> Hazel
> NSS 38664

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