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Greetings list, Obviously a buddy is a good thing for many reasons. They are there to help with problems. They are there with another nearly complete set of usable senses thus, added input. Agreeably, they add a lot in the way of safety. However I believe there are exceptions. Now before we start yelling hear me out. I'm not condoning solo diving, I'm not condoning the article that is referenced...I did not even read it. More than half of my cave diving is done in low visability cold water sumps. Now when I'm looking at the prospect of pushing a new sump I have to take many things into consideration. Often when gearing up to push a sump, I'm laying on my back in a low passage. Perhaps with less than 18" of ceiling height. This can be near a cave entrance or perhaps thousands of feet from the entrance. Sometimes there can be several feet of mud to sludge through before I can actually float. Of course by the time I reach into the sump, what vis was there has been replaced with the fog. Ok so here I am in the middle of a silt cloud, reel in hand, probing the cave walls for a possible lead. I'm looking for what might be there but I have to rely on touch to find it. Often I have to swim in a zig zag pattern as direction finding can be difficult. When there is no vis, no line, there is nothing to follow except the walls. Where is my buddy during all this? He is standing by at the entrance to the sump. Should I fail to return in a predetermined time frame, he will then enter the sump to assist(However to date this has not been necessary). If find the passage goes (yes some sumps go for thousands of feet)...and begin to have some visbility, I will tie off and return. Once a line is in place in a secure location either within or beyond the sump, then solo is no longer required. I always thought of out of light drills and buddy contact as contingency plans. Drills that we do to prepare for conditions that go sour after the dive has commenced. I think when most divers run into the need for buddy contact they are in fact turning the dive. The dive has been called. There are exceptions and this is not the case with sump diving. The goal is to push on, to break the sump. Having been a caver for more than 20 years I have always looked for the safest way to push caves. So when I began sump diving I tried to take the same approach within the sumps...Think it out and do it safely. I began my sump diving solo. It seemed that to have another diver on a push dive in low tight passages in no vis, would not be doing it safely. Have I always pushed sumps solo? No, However the times that I had a buddy(on a low tight sump push) I was more concerned with where he was and what his head was doing than where I was going. The times there is some vis it seems that two divers would always make it worse. Not because of poor tecnique, rather due to the tight silty passage. It was indeed counterproductive. It can take many hours, even days in the cave to set up a sump dive. I do want them to be safe as well as productive. One of the more recent times, one of my two dive buddies that were with me on this particular dive, failed to observe the hold signal when I was pushing into a low passage, my unknown buddy followed me in and lost the line. This was more than 1100' from the entrance. He had the line in his hand one minute then pop!! it was gone. Since I had no idea that he had followed me into this sump, I had no idea he was not waiting for me at beginning of the low silty passage. Waiting on the line that had been laid up to that point (Where he should have been). So I'm pushing forward the ceiling against my back...My belly plowing through the silt. Soon it became to tight for me to continue forward. I turned and began to reel out. After about a hundred feet I kicked something that felt different than everything else around me. I backed up a little, reached back and found a diver. I felt around for a hand put it on the line...pushed the hand toward the way out, made buddy contact and began to think. Now what if I had returned to the beginning of this push and my buddy was not there? I could have either thought he had left the cave for some reason. (This would have been unlikly as buddy no. two did indeed hold his position and would/could have seen him exit) Or I might have realized that he followed me into the sump and was lost. I thank God that I did find him on the way out. I would have had no better than a 50/50 chance making the correct decision on the way to go search. Other than buddy #2 who did hold his position and would/could have seen him go torward the exit. Yes I admit, this was a cluster of a dive and would like to prevent this from ever happening again, So I remind my buddy (who is still by buddy) about this from time to time. It was his inexperience ( he was only in his second year of sump diving)and my poor dive planning combined that allowed this to occur. But I was responsible, and make no acception for that fact. Now I'd like to find the "best" way for two sump divers to go through Low, Tight, Low vis/No vis sumps while deploying line. Is my buddy to be holding my thigh? His other hand on the line to keep him/us from becoming entangled as we move forward? In my experience, this make it awkward to make forward progress and increases the likelihood that we will become entangled. It also means any vis that is there will be wiped out twice as fast. So if I'm in a low tight underwater crawl in front of my buddy there is not much I can do if he squeezes my thigh. I can back up, I can stop, I can move forward, maybe even pass the long hose. But if he is stuck. I can not turn around to help him until I make it past the restriction, if there is a past the restriction. Some tunnels are just small tunnels. To be honest, My comfort level while pushing no vis tight sumps is far better when I'm solo, than if I were to have a buddy along. But as I said above, once the line has been tied off in or beyond the sump, then passing these restrictions with buddy teams is no problem. Laying line in teams in big passage with vis is the correct way to push,IMO. After laying line (with and without buddy) in these conditions, I have to say that I personally think Solo is safer. For me, solo always goes smoother than with buddy duing a sump push. Approx six months ago I recovered the body of a 19 year old caver. He was in a very tight restricted passage heading into a downward slope with inches of airspace and lots of mud. One of his arms was reaching out in front of him, the other trapped to his side. It took me and several others working over a period of five hours to move him approx. ten feet. Another couple of hours to put him in a sked, then still another 30 minutes to reach an area where there was room enough to load him into a Stokes for the haul out of the vertical entrance. He basically drowned in mud. His buddies said he did not seem to struggle very long before they presumed him dead. They could not free him from his fatal situation. While this may not be related to cave diving as such..it is more likely the type restrictions sump divers may encounter in a no mount situation. Agreed, Judgment has alot to do with push or don't push in these instances. I personally would not have pushed this tight of downward passage underwater....But there are those who do. I'd hate to be trapped like that in a underwater cave....It would be even worse if my buddy was ahead of me and I was blocking his exit. Now I know there may be people who are going to start calling me a stroke, But I'm not....I want to know a better/safer way of pushing sumps safely with buddies... In fact I'll always continue to look for better ways to acheive all my goals in life. So any advice on the proper way to do this would be most welcomed. I only ask that these opinions come from those who have actually pushed sumps and are currently in the active mode of doing so on a regular basis. Even advice on how teams push no vis caves in general would be useful. Of course everyones opinion will be of interest to many. I know there are many sump divers (probably solo and team players) out there who I will now ask to step up. Lets hear what methods you guys use. If you do it solo be honest, Speak up. If you know the best way then tell me/us. Don't just slam...explain. Does Oliver Isler still dive solo? If so, has he made his reasoning for doing so clear? Is he a stroke for doing solo dives? I don't believe so. How about the dozens of other active Sump divers who have studied these same questions and also feel that some dives are best done solo. How about the other active sump divers that push into these type passages as teams. Share you approach. I have not closed my mind. Lets all help find the best way to do these type dives, safely. "SILT HAPPENS"JD JEFF DISLER SAFE CAVING NSS 26000 At 03:13 PM 9/9/99 -0400, kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote: >No, Lee , you are missing the point - proper training shows you how to >easily solve these problems, and in my time cave diving, that training >has allowed me and my dive partners to handle these with ease - in fact, >it IS CAVE DIVING. > >Rennaker is an idiot, plain and simple. > >Also, the attitude of a "stroke" is what you describe below. Lee, if >this is so big, dark and scary - DON'T DO IT - take up golf. > >Lee Gibson and Lucy Bonilla wrote: >> >> I think some of you are missing the point of the "most important person" >> concept. Mr. Rennaker is just being honest about basic human nature. >> When things are the worst we all revert to our survival instincts >> despite the best intentions. Recent case, the Jackson Blue incident >> also detailed in the Journal (and let me emphasize that I am not sitting >> in judgment of these divers), >> three divers entered the system. At maximum penetration they had a silt >> out and lost communication with each other...they became solo divers. >> Two of them were able to regroup attempt a search and then exit...the >> third was left behind. As the two exited their stress levels were >> obviously elevated with self preservation being the priority. When they >> reached their safety bottles, three full 80cf at 1000', neither diver >> elected to pick up the bottles and go back in to search some more....the >> thought of getting out was paramount and understandable. In all cases >> self rescue is better than buddy rescue and should be taught in that >> order. >> As for solo diving, it should be made as a cognitive choice not as an >> outcome of circumstance. The divers at Jackson had no intention of solo >> diving, but for a time it occurred. Mr. Rennaker's article eludes to >> these types of scenarios.....swimming or scootering too far apart, loss >> of visibility >> without touch contact, long one-man restrictions, stressed or task >> overloaded diver....these scenarios are "solo dives" and should be >> avoided if you are not prepared for them. The other type of solo diving >> is intentional, even if a "buddy" is in the water. Small system >> exploration being the best example. It requires special gear, training, >> and mind set. Solo diving can and is being done safely on a routine >> basis by a small number of experienced cave divers. They just don't >> advertise or promote the activity...solo diving definitely is not for >> everyone, but neither is cave diving for that matter. >> Lee Gibson >> Matt London wrote: >> >> > I was also appalled at this article and Mr. Rennarker and his >> > insistence on his "most important person" concept. The lack of proper >> > buddy system procedures, communication skills, equipment knowledge and >> > configuration, dive planning and the basic diving skills that is so >> > obvious in cave diving today is the direct responsibility of the >> > instructors handing out the certifications. Many people today seem to >> > be more interested in collecting "C" cards ASAP then learning the art >> > of safe cave diving. With all due respect it is my opinion that Mr. >> > Rennikers article is a prime example of what we don't want to teach >> > our students. Best regards M> Thailand's deep cave exploration at - >> > www.divefun.com/tcdp/ > > >
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