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George, You brought up the chest pounding "big dark and scary " argument and suggested that I take up golf...and because I continue to take a different view point than you, I am now an "arrogant, condescending, pussy". Third grade school yard name calling does not generate much respect as to your debating skills. This does not diminish your accomplishment in cave diving or as a champion against deep air which I respect. Twenty years ago I started cave diving. I was a medical student in Miami and was cave diving with one of my classmates and another local. That is why some of the physicians down there know of my hobby....not because I run around broadcasting it. I haven't worked in a Dade/Broward hospital in over 15 years. And, that doctor nor you have any idea what kind of dives I do or where since we have never been in the water together and I don't post my accomplishments on a web site. Safe Diving, Lee Gibson kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote: > Lee , being an arrogant , condecending pussy is not an admirable trait. > You believe whatever makes you feel better in regard to me, and show > everyone who understands the obvious how stupid that sounds. Clearly I > know nothing about any kind of cave diving, certainly not as compared to > the great Lee Gibson. > > You are the kind of chest-beating Barney Fife weenie I really dispise. I > was in the ER at Broward General and one of the doctors told me he met a > "real big time cave diver" that was a doctor up in Gooberville - he was > talking about your description of yourself to him. I would be > embarrassed to be such a stroke as to say something like that. You tell > everyone what a big timer you are and then come on here and prove > ignorance beyond the pale displayed with an arrognace unmatched even by > Hillary Clinton. > > You deal in half logic, one dimensional, static moronity that one would > expect form a rigid thinking mongoloid, yet you are a doctor, and you > are so misdirected and so irresponsible as to come on here and endorse > the babblings of a farm animal. > > When we get silted out, we use the tools at our dipoosal to deal with > it, like hearing your buddies breathing, like being in touch contact, > like knowing what his proceedures will be ( not cut and run, fuck your > buddy, Lee - sorry), like alternately cupping and showing the light so > as to see his glow or have him see yours, planting and sweeping, > clipping in for a "no miss" pass, etc. > > I don't think anyone is interested in anything that is coming from any > of the "old timers" in cave diving - you guys' record speaks for itself, > and so does mine and the record of my team and my teammates. There is > real information out there, only none of you have any of it. > > Lee Gibson and Lucy Bonilla wrote: > > > > I don't believe training should include solo diving, but it should be > > recognized and avoided if you are not prepared to deal with it. How many > > side-mount zero visibility bedding plane restrictions have you been through > > in "your time cave diving"? Judging from your position I would say ZERO. I > > just pushed one 200' in a virgin system in the Suwannee River to break out > > into Florida Room size passage to a penetration of 1500' with more leads to > > push. A buddy ahead of me could not get turned around to help me nor vice > > versa. So if I have a problem in that bedding plane I better have a fool proof > > plan for self rescue...sounds a lot like solo diving doesn't it. You might > > find what I do to be too big, dark, and scary. I will look for you with your > > putter in your hand. > > Lee > > > > kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote: > > > > > No, Lee , you are missing the point - proper training shows you how to > > > easily solve these problems, and in my time cave diving, that training > > > has allowed me and my dive partners to handle these with ease - in fact, > > > it IS CAVE DIVING. > > > > > > Rennaker is an idiot, plain and simple. > > > > > > Also, the attitude of a "stroke" is what you describe below. Lee, if > > > this is so big, dark and scary - DON'T DO IT - take up golf. > > > > > > Lee Gibson and Lucy Bonilla wrote: > > > > > > > > I think some of you are missing the point of the "most important person" > > > > concept. Mr. Rennaker is just being honest about basic human nature. > > > > When things are the worst we all revert to our survival instincts > > > > despite the best intentions. Recent case, the Jackson Blue incident > > > > also detailed in the Journal (and let me emphasize that I am not sitting > > > > in judgment of these divers), > > > > three divers entered the system. At maximum penetration they had a silt > > > > out and lost communication with each other...they became solo divers. > > > > Two of them were able to regroup attempt a search and then exit...the > > > > third was left behind. As the two exited their stress levels were > > > > obviously elevated with self preservation being the priority. When they > > > > reached their safety bottles, three full 80cf at 1000', neither diver > > > > elected to pick up the bottles and go back in to search some more....the > > > > thought of getting out was paramount and understandable. In all cases > > > > self rescue is better than buddy rescue and should be taught in that > > > > order. > > > > As for solo diving, it should be made as a cognitive choice not as an > > > > outcome of circumstance. The divers at Jackson had no intention of solo > > > > diving, but for a time it occurred. Mr. Rennaker's article eludes to > > > > these types of scenarios.....swimming or scootering too far apart, loss > > > > of visibility > > > > without touch contact, long one-man restrictions, stressed or task > > > > overloaded diver....these scenarios are "solo dives" and should be > > > > avoided if you are not prepared for them. The other type of solo diving > > > > is intentional, even if a "buddy" is in the water. Small system > > > > exploration being the best example. It requires special gear, training, > > > > and mind set. Solo diving can and is being done safely on a routine > > > > basis by a small number of experienced cave divers. They just don't > > > > advertise or promote the activity...solo diving definitely is not for > > > > everyone, but neither is cave diving for that matter. > > > > Lee Gibson > > > > Matt London wrote: > > > > > > > > > I was also appalled at this article and Mr. Rennarker and his > > > > > insistence on his "most important person" concept. The lack of proper > > > > > buddy system procedures, communication skills, equipment knowledge and > > > > > configuration, dive planning and the basic diving skills that is so > > > > > obvious in cave diving today is the direct responsibility of the > > > > > instructors handing out the certifications. Many people today seem to > > > > > be more interested in collecting "C" cards ASAP then learning the art > > > > > of safe cave diving. With all due respect it is my opinion that Mr. > > > > > Rennikers article is a prime example of what we don't want to teach > > > > > our students. Best regards M> Thailand's deep cave exploration at - > > > > > www.divefun.com/tcdp/
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