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Andrew, how about his best comment of all , " recreational rebreather". You were really right about this guy - he is one of the worst of the worst. Also, can you recommend a good dentist to this stroke? Andrew wrote: > > Garrett > > I recently read an article in the Northwest Dive News about you and your > training philosophy. Please explain the hypocrisy > ******************* > Quoted from the article published Aug 1999, in Northwest Dive News entitled: > ' Drager Dolphin Rebreathers- A Breath of Fresh Air'-- > > "Garrett eventually became interested in technical diving. He was drawn to > technical diving, not as a thrill seeker, but as a diver seeking discipline > and proper techniques in diving. Garrett says, " I have never done a dive I > haven't trained to do." > He says that rebreather diving is essentially an extension of the discipline > of technical diving. "Divers really have to want to do this for the sheer > quest of perfection and discipline. Divers who have reckless attitude really > shouldn't do this. " You must be disciplined, train to each level and use a > building block approach. " > > Later in the article his victim states: " My dive began with a 45 minute > briefing on the rebreather. We discussed the components of the system and a > little about the theory of how things work. I am not going to get in to it > here because, frankly, I don't remember a thing. We talked a little about > Nitrox theory. We also discussed keeping the inside of the unit dry. After > we finished getting ready, I signaled for the descent. " > > ********************* > The situation is that all of the talk about discipline, training and proper > techniques you discussed in the first part of the article is just > that...Talk. The reality is, you took an unqualified diver (read his own > words: "...frankly, I don't remember a thing...)on an openwater rebreather > dive for publicity. . > > "Reckless attitude".-----Professional scuba instructors, dive operators and > leaders have kept recreational diving safe by living the very words that > Garrett mouths in the article. We face an attitude of "instant > gratification" from the consumers of the world, that we can not always > satisfy due to the very demands that safety puts on a diver. I'm sure > everybody would like a chance to try out a rebreather before they committed > the time and money into training and buying one. Personally, I'd like to > take a jet fighter for a spin. Granting either of these desires is reckless > and unsafe. Period. > > Garrett, you are reckless in allowing people to think and to go on a > rebreather dive with only 45 minutes of .... "All it takes is 45 minutes of > their time to learn to dive a Rebreather for the first time.?" > > As for the author and new rebreather diver in the article, Rick, who > "...must have looked cool with all that techy (sic) gear on, I sure felt > cool.....They looked over at me like they thought I was cool too. I didn't > tell them that it was my first time." , he has the typical attitude of the > uninformed. Ask him what were the dangers of hypoxia, what would cause them, > what would the sign be? None of these can be answered (read his own words: > "...frankly, I don't remember a thing...) > > Andrew > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Mee <wwm@sa*.ne*> > To: <scubait@ix*.ne*.co*> > Cc: <kirvine@sa*.ne*>; <techdiver@aq*.co*>; > <clw5232@ga*.ac*.fs*.ed*>; <rose@cs*.sc*.ed*>; <cavers@cavers.com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 8:58 AM > Subject: Re: Drager Dolphin/Atlantis - RBs and Technical Diving > > >Garret, > > > >I'll ignore your mealymouth whining and cut to the chase. One of the > >biggest problems many people have with people like George, myself and now > >you, is the hyperbole vs information ratio. What they do not object to is > >the transfer of useful, factual, information which may in the long haul > save > >their lives. > > > >You are name calling and spewing insults and avoiding discussing the issue > >here. Let's refocus and put aside the polite introductions. The issue is > >the Drager and the design flaws inherent to this particular device, which > >could result in yours (or probably somebody else's, like a students) life > >being shortened. If you think this is bs then we can simply review the > >handful of fatalities and accidents which have occurred over the last two > >years on a case by case basis. The point is that many people on techdiver > >will eventually consider using rebreathers. While this was probably not > the > >case several years ago, it certainly is now,what with the huge increase in > >the numbers of people engaging in so called "technical diving". I expect > >that the numbers of people showing up on offshore dive charters with rbs to > >increase significantly. > > > >Thus, it is worthwhile to discuss the pros and cons of rebreathers in > >general and the strengths and weaknesses of specific devices on this forum > >for the benefit of all. A year ago this would have drawn lots of yawns, > but > >times have changed. > > > >The expense and gas logistics of offshore technical diving coupled with the > >availablity of affordable rebreathers make the use of rbs an attractive and > >tempting proposition. It is my opinion that the risk to reward ratio of > >these things must be very carefully considered before making the jump into > >the deep blue. The fact is that most rb dives are better off being done on > >open circuit, but leave that issue to a later discussion. > > > >Just to jog your memory a little bit I will take the liberty to reprint the > >text of George's response to a certain Paul Davis (employee of Drager?) > >which evolved out of a discussion of Henry Kendall's death on a Cis Lunar. > >The subject matter was "Natural Causes". The term "natural causes" is > often > >used in describing the cause of death in rebreather accidents. > > > >People on Techdiver need to become familiar with the lexicon of > rebreathers. > >Terms such as "Natural Causes", "Diabetes" and "Diver Error" are a good > >starting point. Perhaps you can add something to the knowledge base. > > > >Best regards, > > > >Bill > > > > > >Kirvine Wrote: > > > >Paul, don't tell me you guys still manufacture that piece of shit? I > >guess your post below is inspired by Richard Nordstom's lie that nobody > >had ever been killed using a Cis Lunar rebreather. Maybe you or Norstrom > >could give me Ian Rollin's phone number so I can call him up and see how > >he is doing? I bet I could find him having lunch with Generalissimo > >Franco. > > > >It seems that rebreather manufacturers have been emboldened by the > >recent aquittal of Clinton on perjury charges. After all, what is > >"death". Death, like "sex" is obviously subjective. Ian Rollin's death > >apparently is like Clinton's sex - just a little head. > > > >We all know that there have been deaths on the Atlantis, that there have > >been injuries on the Atlantis, and that there have been accidents on the > >Atlantis. How about the British Secret Service agent brain damaged in > >Hawaii on an Atlantis? Just a little head? > > > >Listen, Mr. Bullshit, the Atlantis is the single worst peice of crap I > >have ever seen : > > > >1) the mouthpiece has some wimpy valves in it that curl > >up and give you a real nice hypercapnia experience when you need to > >breath hard. > > > >2) The counter lung would makes a cheap BC look bad - this > >thing is as flimsy and ill thought out as it gets. It chafes all over > >the cover, and is poorly contained. > > > >3) The orifice system is so stupid > >as to be criminal in my opinion. The concept of varying gas supplies way > >above what could be breathed on open circuit according to orifice and > >depth is beyond the pale stupid and shows that you guys know nothing > >about diving. > > > > 4) The way this cheeseball works is extremely dangerous - > >when the gas supply runs out this thing continues on to breath like a > >CCR without aaddition with no warning. The loop gets depleted of oxygen > >and it's lights out. It took me one dive in the pool on this to find > >that out, and I never put one on again, and never looked further to see > >what other horrors this atrocity contains. Maybe the others how have had > >one of these could fill us all in. > > > >I am supprised this thing is not sold in K Mart or at Seven Elevens, or > >on late night TV with the vegetable steamer and the Ginshu knives. > > > > > >Paul Davis wrote: > >> > >> Bill, > >> > >> I often find it interesting that whenever a death is mentioned on > >rebreathers > >> the mud starts to fly at the Atlantis unit and I go down this path all > the > >> time? On what do you base this information? If you have knowledge, then > >please > >> share it openly on the forum. If you are working on hearsay then please > >check > >> you sources. > >> > >> Paul Davis > >> > >> > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Garrett Weinberg <scubait@ix*.ne*.co*> > >To: Bill Mee <wwm@sa*.ne*> > >Cc: kirvine@sa*.ne* <kirvine@sa*.ne*>; rebreather@nw*.co* > ><rebreather@nw*.co*>; techdiver@aq*.co* <techdiver@aq*.co*> > >Date: Monday, August 09, 1999 6:35 PM > >Subject: Re: Fw: Drager dolphin > > > > > >>What do we have here - spokesmouth (Volker), then dumb and dumber? Who are > >you > >>going to roll out next? > >> > >>I didn't start this shit off and I don't have to defend the Dolphin > against > >>close minded fools who have already reached conclusions without facts. > >Draeger's > >>record speaks for itself. > >> > >>You want to voice your opinion about the Drager - go right ahead. It > >was/is/and > >>will remain a free country and nothing George says or does to try to force > >>everyone into his way of thinking is going to change that fact. > >> > >>l will also state my experiences on the Draeger whenever and wherever I > >feel > >>like - neither you, nor Dan (aka the mouthpiece with no brains) nor George > >are > >>going to "insult" me or intimidate me. My comments and opinions on the > >Dolphin > >>(and the Ray) are based upon my experience not innuendo nor hearsay. > >> > >>I'm willing to respect that fact that you have a lot of hours on a > >rebreather > >>that works for your mission - why can't you do the same with other people > >and > >>other rebreathers and other missions. > >> > >>I'm willing to respect the fact that the MK 15.5 works for Kevin in his > >missions > >>- it just doesn't work for most recreational divers. > >> > >>I'm willing to respect the fact that the Lar V works for the military - it > >just > >>doesn't work for most recreational divers. > >> > >>IMHO, the Dolphin does and does it well for recreational divers - > >especially if > >>they are well trained. > >> > >>You seem to be willing to accept the fact that the world has Chevy's, > >Fords, > >>Toyotas, etc. and people make buying decisions based upon need and > >economics. > >>Why, when we enter the world of scuba diving are we forced to do it your > >way or > >>be labeled strokes. Why the fuck are you unwilling to accept the fact that > >>rebreathers are also purchased on the basis of need and economics. Only > you > >want > >>to force people into the single alternative that you believe in - I > thought > >>there was a government that collapsed a few years ago because it was > bassed > >on > >>"no freedom of choice". > >> > >>And, last and truly last, it seems to me that the whining and falsehood > >>manufacturer was George. > >> > >>If you feel like making up some other falsehoods, go ahead. Neither you > nor > >>George not any of your syncophants have been in the water with me. Thus, I > >>accept the comments from George of me being a stroke as just another > series > >of > >>bullshit statements from the mouth that roared. > >> > >> > >>Bill Mee wrote: > >> > >>> Garrett, > >>> > >>> More to the point. You seem to be quite proud of your experience with > >the > >>> Drager, which as we all know is an SCR. I am sure that you are aware > that > >>> the Drager ranks right up there with the Inspiration in the deaths and > >>> serious injury department. Perhaps, rather than whining about George, > >you > >>> could explain to us why this is? > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Bill > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Garrett Weinberg <scubait@ix*.ne*.co*> > >>> To: kirvine@sa*.ne* <kirvine@sa*.ne*> > >>> Cc: rebreather@nw*.co* <rebreather@nw*.co*>; > >>> techdiver@aq*.co* <techdiver@aq*.co*>; wwm@sa*.ne* > >>> <wwm@sa*.ne*> > >>> Date: Monday, August 09, 1999 2:10 PM > >>> Subject: Re: Fw: Drager dolphin > >>> > >>> >George: > >>> > > >>> >The funny thing is that I placed an order with Halycon about two hours > >ago > >>> for two Pony > >>> >Mount Systems (Item Number HAL-ACC-PS) for one of my custoemrs. The > >funny > >>> thing is that > >>> >the order was accepted and I was not purchasing it as a retail customer > >but > >>> as a dealer. > >>> > > >>> >So we know that you lie. > >>> > > >>> >Perhaps you also lie about drugs or maybe you did so much that drug > >>> flashbacks are an > >>> >accepted part of your life. > >>> > > >>> >I can't think of any other reason for the simple fact that I am a > >Halycon > >>> dealer cannot > >>> >penetrate your thick skull. > >>> > > >>> >Again, you lie. > >>> > > >>> >Smoke cigarettes constantly? Not in the last twelve months. > >>> > > >>> >Again, you lie. > >>> > > >>> >Enough of your bullshit. You are a bully and the only way you can win > >>> arguments is > >>> >through lies and falsehoods and brow beating. I'm tired of you and > tired > >of > >>> wasting my > >>> >time dealing with an idiot like you. > >>> > > >>> >Here are the my final comments on this thread: > >>> > > >>> >(1) I am a Halycon dealer - unless RMC posts something to the contrary. > >>> >(2) I stated that all rebreathers are designed for a specific mission. > >Does > >>> anyone > >>> >seriously disagree with this comment? > >>> >(3) George Irvine lies. > >>> >(4) I have never dove a Halycon rebreather. I have never stated that I > >dove > >>> a Halycon > >>> >rebreather. > >>> >(5) I pay for my own gear. > >>> >(6) Dan Volker can stop hiding in the woods. His cur dog George has > more > >>> guts than Dan. > >>> >I didn't say that his cur is smarter or more honest - just has more > >guts. > >>> > > >>> >Good night gracie and make certain that the door don't hit you on your > >ass > >>> on the way > >>> >out. > >>> > > >>> >Katherine Irvine wrote: > >>> > > >>> >> Garret, the fact is YOU ARE NOT a Halcyon dealer. The fact is I do > not > >>> >> use drugs of any kind, and have not for decades. > >>> >> > >>> >> You , on the other hand, are in fact a broke dick nothing, who smokes > >>> >> cigarettes constantly to the point where your rotting teeth are > >stained > >>> >> the color of your asshole, and your foul breath is enough to gag a > >>> >> magot. > >>> >> > >>> >> You are a pathetic excuse for a cadaver, let alone a human being, you > >>> >> are a two bit dive instructor who is constantly trying to schnorr > gear > >>> >> and deals from anyone, and it is a tribute to Draeger that they have > >you > >>> >> "on board". This should serve as an advertisement to anyone who looks > >>> >> that this is what they DO NOT WANT. > >>> >> > >>> >> You are a power of the worst example in our sport, and a well-known > >>> >> stroke. By the way, yuo must have me confused with Tom Mouth's son. > >>> >> > >>> >> Garrett Weinberg wrote: > >>> >> > > >>> >> > George: > >>> >> > > >>> >> > Engage your brain (or are you suffering from a cocaine flashback > >that > >>> temporarily > >>> >> > disengaged your cognitive powers) and get your facts straight > before > >>> you - like > >>> >> > Dan Volker - run your mouth off. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > (1) It was inevitable that you would spew forth with your comments > >>> after Dan got a > >>> >> > spanking. It was never a question of "if" but rather a question of > >>> "when". > >>> >> > > >>> >> > (2) I am a Halycon dealer. You may not be aware of it, but Halycon > >>> sells products > >>> >> > other than rebreathers. If you got a problem with me being a > Halycon > >>> dealer, I > >>> >> > suggest that you speak to RMC. I sell Halycon gear and I do so as > an > >>> authorized > >>> >> > dealer and under the full terms and conditions of my dealer > >agreement > >>> with > >>> >> > Halycon.. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > So, your statement that I am not a Halycon dealer is a lie. Plain > >and > >>> simple - a > >>> >> > lie. Are you willing to admit that you "misspoke" on this one or do > >you > >>> want to > >>> >> > get my Halycon dealership revoked so that the next time you post > >about > >>> me not > >>> >> > being a Halycon dealer it will be true? > >>> >> > > >>> >> > (3) I never said that I dive a Halycon rebreather. I never said > >>> anything about the > >>> >> > Halycon rebreather. Unlike Dan, I don't knock a product that I have > >no > >>> experience > >>> >> > on. If you can find a statement in my message that hints or > suggests > >>> that I have > >>> >> > dove a Halycon rebreather, please do so. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > Are you willing to admit that you "stretched" the truth yet again > on > >>> this point. > >>> >> > Golly gee George, caught in a second lie - and in one e-mail. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > (4) I said that rebreathers should be mission specific. Actually, > >the > >>> exact words > >>> >> > that I used were: > >>> >> > > >>> >> > "All rebreathers are designed for a specific purpose. Figure out > >>> precisely where > >>> >> > and why you want to use rebreathers and then post the question > >again." > >>> >> > > >>> >> > Please be so kind as to tell me what is incorrect in that > statement. > >I > >>> don't think > >>> >> > that any rebreather designer/manufacturer - including RMC - would > >>> disagree with > >>> >> > the statement. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > (5) I own an dive a Drager rebreather. Whether you like the unit or > >>> not - and > >>> >> > frankly I don't give a rats shit about you misleading statements (I > >>> would say lies > >>> >> > but everyone knows that you never ever lie), but I do have some > >>> knowledge and > >>> >> > experience on the Drager. You may not like the unit, the unit may > >not > >>> meet your > >>> >> > needs, you may not like me - none of which really matters - but > that > >>> doesn't > >>> >> > change the fact that for many people, it is a affordable, safe, > >>> pleasurable > >>> >> > recreational rebreather > >>> >> > > >>> >> > (6) Why won't Dan tell this group what his experience level is on > >the > >>> Halycon > >>> >> > rebreather. It appears that he couldn't respond about his > experience > >on > >>> the > >>> >> > Halycon rebreather cause he has none or very little so he let loose > >the > >>> >> > foaming-at-the-mouth-ankle-nipping-Ivrine-dog to come to his > >defense. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > (7) Once again, the only opinion that counts in this world is the > >>> glorious word of > >>> >> > truth from the master himself. Anyone who disagrees is either farm > >>> animal stupid > >>> >> > or a "broke dick instructor". > >>> >> > > >>> >> > (8) If I have foul breath, it obviously comes from inadvertently > >>> breathing the > >>> >> > shit the you spew forth on a regular and consistent basis. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > George: > >>> >> > > >>> >> > Tell me the time and date in which to meet at 34th street and > Herald > >>> Square. I'm > >>> >> > sure that Macy's will donate window space while you kiss my ass. > Or, > >is > >>> your > >>> >> > promise of kissing ass in Macy's window if proven incorrect yet > >another > >>> lie told > >>> >> > by the master? > >>> >> > > >>> >> > And please, tell you alter ego MrClark96 (or what-ever fake e-mail > >name > >>> that you > >>> >> > lurk under) not to bother sending me an e-mail threatening to come > >to > >>> Seattle to > >>> >> > kill me. The last time he did this, I offered to pay for his ticket > >so > >>> he could > >>> >> > come to Seattle and kick my but somehow he never showed up. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > Katherine Irvine wrote: > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > Weinberg - you have no information of any value to anyone on this > >>> >> > > planet. You are not a Halcyon dealer, you do not have a Halcyon, > >you > >>> >> > > have no buisness discussing it. You have no buinsess discussing > >>> anything > >>> >> > > or anyone - you have zero knowledge or experience on which to > base > >>> any > >>> >> > > of your bullshit. You are a broke dick dive instructor with > >rotting > >>> >> > > teeth and foul breath who does more to damage this sport and its > >>> image > >>> >> > > than most. You are a disgusting disgrace that noboyd woould want > >>> >> > > representing their product, and the very last in the case of > >Halcyon. > >>> >> > > Your arrogance is clearly due to the fact that you feel safe over > >on > >>> the > >>> >> > > rb list with the rest of the fakers and bullshitters. In the real > >>> world, > >>> >> > > you don't cut it, and neither do any of them so far to date. > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > -----Original Message----- > >>> >> > > > From: Garrett Weinberg <scubait@ix*.ne*.co*> > >>> >> > > > To: rebreather@nw*.co* <rebreather@nw*.co*> > >>> >> > > > Cc: Manolito Lopez <manolito@mo*.co*> > >>> >> > > > Date: Saturday, August 07, 1999 6:09 PM > >>> >> > > > Subject: Re: Drager dolphin > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > >There is only one piece of advice that comes to mind when > >reading > >>> any > >>> >> > > > >statement that comes from Dan Volker - "Don't waste our time" > >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > >Dan conveniently forget to tell you that the company that he > >works > >>> for > >>> >> > > > >manufactureres and sells the Halycon. Not exactly a piece of > >>> unbiased > >>> >> > > > >information. > >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > >Thus, to keep all things above board, I should tell you that: > >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > >(a) I teach the Draeger Atlantis/Dolphin/Ray > >>> >> > > > >(b) I am a Draeger dealer > >>> >> > > > >(c) I am also a Halycon dealer > >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > >Having said all of that. > >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > >All rebreathers are designed for a specific purpose. Figure > out > >>> precisely > >>> >> > > > >where and why you want to use rebreathers and then post the > >>> question again. > >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > >Maybe, with a better understanding of what you want to do we > >can > >>> give you > >>> >> > > > more > >>> >> > > > >meaningful insights rather than the standard Volker dribble. > >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > >Dan Volker wrote: > >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > >> There's only one piece of advice that comes to mind--you've > >>> probably > >>> >> > > > heard > >>> >> > > > >> it on TV...."Just Say No"...to the Drager. > >>> >> > > > >> Buying an inexpensive death trap is no bargain. > >>> >> > > > >> > >>> >> > > > >> Look into the Halcyon II . > >>> >> > > > >> > >>> >> > > > >> Regards, > >>> >> > > > >> Dan Volker > >>> >> > > > >> > >>> >> > > > >> At 01:04 AM 8/8/99 +0800, Manolito Lopez wrote: > >>> >> > > > >> >Hi guys, I'm very new to the list, I'm not even a > rebreather > >>> diver, > >>> >> > > > >> >however I am planning to get a one this month. A lot of > >people > >>> in my > >>> >> > > > >> >area has been buying the Drager dolphin, I wanted to know > >from > >>> you the > >>> >> > > > >> >experts what you think of it. Presently I'm doing my > >technical > >>> nitrox > >>> >> > > > >> >class, I'm planning on getting into trimix a few months > from > >>> now. I > >>> >> > > > >> >have been diving since 1991 and have 350 dives. I live > and > >>> dive in the > >>> >> > > > >> >Philippines. My only worry is that the dolphin is only > >limited > >>> to > >>> >> > > > >> >recreational limits. And the other units I know of like > the > >>> halcyon and > >>> >> > > > >> >cis-lunar are way too expensive. I hope you guys could > help > >me > >>> here. I > >>> >> > > > >> >don't want to make a mistake by buying the wrong toy. > >Thanks > >>> in > >>> >> > > > >> >advance. > >>> >> > > > >> > > >>> >> > > > >> >manolito > >>> >> > > > >> > > >>> >> > > > >> > > >>> >> > > > >> > > >>> >> > > > >> > > >>> >> > > > >> Dan Volker > >>> >> > > > >> SOUTH FLORIDA DIVE JOURNAL > >>> >> > > > >> "The Internet magazine for Underwater Photography and mpeg > >>> Video" > >>> >> > > > >> http://www.sfdj.com > >>> >> > > > >> 561-547-9685 > >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > >> > >
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