Dip stick,
Fix the date on your machine.

Feel free to post less often,
Jeff


William Allen wrote:

> I'll let you in on a secret (not) the company is Northeast Scuba Supply and
> the reason you hear Cobb support us and the "real" players not hanging us up
> by the short hairs is we sell damn near any cave diving, gas mixing and tech
> diving item you could need. We service it, repair it, ship it all over the
> world (through John's scuba) and the nice thing is we do it as inexpensively
> as we are allowed by our suppliers, no bullshit, no stroke advice. We don't
> knock other good products (such as Barry's lights) and I'll caution you the
> same as I've cautioned others this is the web. Take what you read with a
> grain of salt. We do business and privately communicate with many of the
> very people we have been poking fun at all day, a rather slow day at the
> salt mines. It may suprise you to know we sell many of the products these
> guys use (and lots of it). We have had many private communications with
> George, I think Barry even emailed me twice today in a very positive way. I
> always get a kick out of people who read this stuff and assume they have a
> clue. No one in their right mind is going to place on a world wide list any
> information that they consider private or secret or could hurt them in any
> way. If you have any more questions about northeast scuba email me and I'll
> send you the web page, privately as it should be. Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jody Everett <jodyev@in*.co*>
> To: 'William Allen' <william@ca*.co*>; 'Jesse Armantrout'
> <armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*>; 'Jim Cobb' <cobber@ci*.co*>; 'Miller,
> Barry' <rat@ne*.co*>; 'Michel Therrien' <m.therrien@ne*.qc*.ca*>;
> Pagefix@ao*.co* <Pagefix@ao*.co*>
> Cc: 'cavers' <cavers@cavers.com>; 'Tech Diver' <techdiver@aq*.co*>
> Date: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 8:00 PM
> Subject: RE: Pictures
>
> >Why is it that anyone who actively promotes this place called NESupply(W.
> >Allen and Jim"the Gavin scooters can be found here" Cobb) seem to be should
> >such staunch supporters of AUL.
> >
> >Coincidence...?  Maybe...Maybe not.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: William Allen [mailto:william@ca*.co*]
> >Sent: Thursday, March 25, 1999 4:19 PM
> >To: Jesse Armantrout; Jim Cobb; Miller, Barry; Michel Therrien;
> >Pagefix@ao*.co*
> >Cc: cavers; Tech Diver
> >Subject: Re: Pictures
> >
> >Ah a lucid argument, tough guy, me, naw. Just a person with a different
> >opinion than yours. So let me get this straight the first light was
> improved
> >by AUL's version, than Barry's came out, another improvement. So now what
> >are the odds that Barry's light are the end of the improvements?
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Jesse Armantrout <armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*>
> >To: William Allen <william@ca*.co*>; Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>;
> >Miller, Barry <rat@ne*.co*>; Michel Therrien
> ><m.therrien@ne*.qc*.ca*>; Pagefix@ao*.co* <Pagefix@ao*.co*>
> >Cc: cavers <cavers@cavers.com>; Tech Diver <techdiver@aq*.co*>
> >Date: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 4:14 PM
> >Subject: Re: Pictures
> >
> >
> >>Shattering...interesting choice of words.  That, tough guy, was the
> problem
> >>with the AUL's...the bottom fell off.  The shitty connector was minor.
> >>
> >>Peir (sic) pressure?  Yeah, right.  I choose the gear I am going to do
> cave
> >>exploration at 300 feet deep and a mile and a half back based on peer
> >>pressure.
> >>
> >>An area you are very familiar with?  How?  How many of the gas divers have
> >>you dove with?
> >>
> >>I hope your lights are better than your logic.
> >>
> >>Trout
> >>
> >>----------
> >>> From: William Allen <william@ca*.co*>
> >>> To: Jesse Armantrout <armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*>; Jim Cobb
> >><cobber@ci*.co*>; Miller, Barry <rat@ne*.co*>; Michel
> Therrien
> >><m.therrien@ne*.qc*.ca*>; Pagefix@ao*.co*
> >>> Cc: cavers <cavers@cavers.com>; Tech Diver <techdiver@aq*.co*>
> >>> Subject: Re: Pictures
> >>> Date: Thursday, March 25, 1999 3:03 PM
> >>>
> >>> You mean the banana plug? earth shattering. So there was a need and
> Barry
> >>> filled it, intro to business 101. Unless we're talking about a different
> >>> Barry I doubt he's sorry he started making lights as a matter of fact I
> >>> think one of the reasons Barry is so "vocal" about his light is he's
> >>proud
> >>> of his product and company. As far as all the WKPP using them ( an area
> >>I'm
> >>> very familiar with) I would call it peir pressure. Now if it was only a
> >>wkpp
> >>> product why the massive marketing attempt and rather blatant attempt at
> >>> making your product better by running down everyone else's. When I bring
> >>my
> >>> lights out I'll send one to Barry to look at and evaluate before we
> start
> >>> marketing them. As I'm proud of my product and I'm sure Barry would like
> >>to
> >>> be one of the first to see them.
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Jesse Armantrout <armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*>
> >>> To: William Allen <william@ca*.co*>; Jim Cobb
> >><cobber@ci*.co*>;
> >>> Miller, Barry <rat@ne*.co*>; Michel Therrien
> >>> <m.therrien@ne*.qc*.ca*>; Pagefix@ao*.co* <Pagefix@ao*.co*>
> >>> Cc: cavers <cavers@cavers.com>; Tech Diver <techdiver@aq*.co*>
> >>> Date: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 3:52 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: Pictures
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> >Let me rephrase that...
> >>> >
> >>> >AUL lights incorporated features that Barry Miller lights were using a
> >>few
> >>> >weeks after Barry began selling lights.  Better?
> >>> >
> >>> >The fact is, the only reason Barry began selling lights, something I am
> >>> >sure he regrets, is because nobody was making a light the way many
> >>members
> >>> >of the WKPP wanted their lights made which was, by the way, the way
> >>Gavin
> >>> >made them.  Now, I believe all the lights being used by WKPP gas divers
> >>are
> >>> >either Gavin lights or Miller lights with the exception of George's one
> >>> >NiCad.  This too is contrary to what the web page would have you
> >>believe.
> >>> >
> >>> >Trout
> >>> >
> >>> >----------
> >>> >> From: William Allen <william@ca*.co*>
> >>> >> To: Jesse Armantrout <armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*>; Jim Cobb
> >>> ><cobber@ci*.co*>; Miller, Barry <rat@ne*.co*>; Michel
> >>Therrien
> >>> ><m.therrien@ne*.qc*.ca*>; Pagefix@ao*.co*
> >>> >> Cc: cavers <cavers@cavers.com>; Tech Diver <techdiver@aq*.co*>
> >>> >> Subject: Re: Pictures
> >>> >> Date: Thursday, March 25, 1999 1:41 PM
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Barry's lights were copied by AUL what's this a time warp? I believe
> >>all
> >>> >> these lights are basically copies of another person's light. I
> believe
> >>> >> barrys lights came out quite a bit after AUL's although he did make
> >>some
> >>> >> changes to them. Before anybody has stroke AUL did not design them
> >>> >either.
> >>> >> English engineering I think was the first.
> >>> >> -----Original Message-----
> >>> >> From: Jesse Armantrout <armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*>
> >>> >> To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>; Miller, Barry
> >><rat@ne*.co*>;
> >>> >> Michel Therrien <m.therrien@ne*.qc*.ca*>; Pagefix@ao*.co*
> >>> >> <Pagefix@ao*.co*>
> >>> >> Cc: cavers <cavers@cavers.com>; Tech Diver <techdiver@aq*.co*>
> >>> >> Date: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 2:34 PM
> >>> >> Subject: Re: Pictures
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> >Sorry, Jim, gotta call bullshit here.  I could care less what
> >>language
> >>> >> >anybody uses.  If the stuff works, I buy it.  But then, I like Eddie
> >>> >Murphy
> >>> >> >and George Carlin, too.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >Barry lights work.  And Barry is a great guy.  I am told that AUL
> >>lights
> >>> >> >now work fairly well since they copied Barry's lights.  The web
> page,
> >>> >> >however is in the wrong.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >End of story.  Let's go back to talking about hose routing or upside
> >>> >down
> >>> >> >tanks or some other stupidity.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >Trout
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >----------
> >>> >> >> From: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>
> >>> >> >> To: Miller, Barry <rat@ne*.co*>; Michel Therrien
> >>> >> ><m.therrien@ne*.qc*.ca*>; Pagefix@ao*.co*
> >>> >> >> Cc: cavers <cavers@cavers.com>; Tech Diver
> <techdiver@aq*.co*>
> >>> >> >> Subject: Re: Pictures
> >>> >> >> Date: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 11:46 AM
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> Hey, Barry, you were doing great until that last sentence. I don't
> >>buy
> >>> >> >> this "holier than though" stuff of yours, either.
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> You know, generally speaking, it never ceases to amaze me how
> >>> >> >> manufacturers or representatives come on to these public forums
> and
> >>> >> >> proceed to directly or indirectly piss off or alienate the very
> >>people
> >>> >> >> upon whom their income depends.
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> Like it your not you are one of these manufacturers and getting on
> >>> >these
> >>> >> >> lists with long profanity laced tirades is simply not a bright
> >>thing
> >>> >to
> >>> >> >> do. For every person who supports you  there are ten or a hundred
> >>who
> >>> >> >> will take their business elsewhere.
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> And a common saying in Marketing is "don't get mad, get even" my
> >>boy,
> >>> >if
> >>> >> >> you get my drift (wink, wink, nod, nod).
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >>    Jim
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> Sender: Miller, Barry  Date: 3/24/99 12:13 PM
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> >Mr. Cobb,
> >>> >> >> >   You could not be further from the truth. As a matter of fact,
> >>your
> >>> >> >view
> >>> >> >> >seems to be in the minority. The day that you do something then
> >>have
> >>> >> >> >someone steal it will show a change of attitude, that is the day
> >>you
> >>> >do
> >>> >> >> >something. It is very difficult to say anything without you and
> >>your
> >>> >> >> >friends throwing in the fact that I build equipment. I am not
> sure
> >>> >where
> >>> >> >> >you get that I am doing the marketing, maybe you need to go look
> >>at
> >>> >this
> >>> >> >> >web page and tell us again who is doing the marketing. I am
> >>speaking
> >>> >as
> >>> >> >an
> >>> >> >> >individual trying to protect what is mine, while these "people"
> >>are
> >>> >> >using
> >>> >> >> >my work to sell and promote their product. If one day I decide to
> >>use
> >>> >> >any
> >>> >> >> >of my work to promote anything I do and you don't like it, then
> >>you
> >>> >can
> >>> >> >> >also fuckoff.
> >>> >> >> >
> >>> >> >> >Barry
> >>> >> >> >
> >>> >> >> >
> >>> >> >> >At 10:59 AM 3/24/99 -0500, Jim Cobb wrote:
> >>> >> >> >>Oh for Christs Sake, lets get real here. The reason that the
> >>ratster
> >>> >> >has
> >>> >> >> >>his panties in a wad is the fact that this web site promotes AUL
> >>> >> >products
> >>> >> >> >>and not his gear. All this huff-and-puffery is just a
> smokescreen
> >>> >and a
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >> >>bunch of baby-like boo-hooing that, frankly, does not reflect
> >>well
> >>> >on
> >>> >> >> >>Miller or his products.
> >>> >> >> >>
> >>> >> >> >>You are in the real world now, Miller, you need to start acting
> >>like
> >>> >a
> >>> >> >> >>business professional and not a redneck hillbilly pickemuptruck
> >>> >cowboy.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >> >>You need to take your marketing medicine like a man and quit
> >>> >belaboring
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >> >>the list with your whining.
> >>> >> >> >>
> >>> >> >> >>   Jim
> >>> >> >> >>
> >>> >> >> >>Sender: Michel Therrien  Date: 3/24/99 9:29 AM
> >>> >> >> >>
> >>> >> >> >>>Dear Pagefix, (who is Pagefix?)
> >>> >> >> >>>
> >>> >> >> >>>I am not Barry's friend, nor a WKPP diver or affiliate.  I will
> >>> >admit
> >>> >> >that
> >>> >> >> >>>I don't always like the attitude of some WKPP leaders.
> >>> >> >> >>>
> >>> >> >> >>>This said, the reason why I wrote the message is not to defend
> >>> >> >Barry... it
> >>> >> >> >>>is a question of principle.  I have no tolerance for pirating,
> >>> >> >steeling and
> >>> >> >> >>>unethical behavior such as taking someones material without his
> >>> >> >permission.
> >>> >> >> >>> I propably have this attitude because I worked in the software
> >>> >> >industry (I
> >>> >> >> >>>don't know).
> >>> >> >> >>>
> >>> >> >> >>>Is there a reason why you stay anonymous?  This is another
> thing
> >>I
> >>> >> >have
> >>> >> >> >>>problem with... I guess.
> >>> >> >> >>>
> >>> >> >> >>>Please note that the issue for me is not legal... it is
> ethical.
> >>> >While
> >>> >> >the
> >>> >> >> >>>law may allow to copy someone's material for educative
> purposes,
> >>I
> >>> >> >don't
> >>> >> >> >>>think this is honest.
> >>> >> >> >>>
> >>> >> >> >>>Is it so hard to ask permission to use material PRIOR to using
> >>it?
> >>> >I
> >>> >> >was
> >>> >> >> >>>flattered that the NSS-CDS recently asked me to use some of my
> >>> >> >pictures.
> >>> >> >> >>>On the other hand, I would have been really pissed off if I saw
> >>my
> >>> >> >pictures
> >>> >> >> >>>without any prior discussion about their use.
> >>> >> >> >>>
> >>> >> >> >>>Michel Therrien
> >>> >> >> >>>Montreal, Canada
> >>> >> >> >>>
> >>> >> >> >>>PS: I know it is unethical to copy private messages in public
> >>> >forums,
> >>> >> >but I
> >>> >> >> >>>started public and I think your answer may help the rest of the
> >>> >crowd
> >>> >> >to
> >>> >> >> >>>understand your position.
> >>> >> >> >>>
> >>> >> >> >>>
> >>> >> >> >>>At 09:04 AM 3/24/99 EST, you wrote:
> >>> >> >> >>>>Michel the video was given to one of our sponsors and we took
> >>some
> >>> >> >clips of
> >>> >> >> >>>>it.  The law states that you can us this type of material as
> >>long
> >>> >as
> >>> >> >you
> >>> >> >> >are
> >>> >> >> >>>>not selling it to make a profit.  We e-mailed Barry with an
> >>> >apology
> >>> >> >for the
> >>> >> >> >>>>mistake and fixed the problem.  He didn't post that part on
> you
> >>> >> >cavers list
> >>> >> >> >>>>just the other parts that he wanted you to see.  The fact of
> >>the
> >>> >> >matter
> >>> >> >> >is we
> >>> >> >> >>>>would have agreed with what he asked but after the flaming he
> >>gave
> >>> >us
> >>> >> >we
> >>> >> >> >took
> >>> >> >> >>>>a defensive posture.  What is wrong with him has he no respect
> >>for
> >>> >> >> >>>anything or
> >>> >> >> >>>>one?  I am sorry if you want to punish AUL for Barry Millers
> >>> >Flaming
> >>> >> >and
> >>> >> >> >Lies
> >>> >> >> >>>>to us.  But if you feel like the only way to help Barry is
> >>kicking
> >>> >> >another
> >>> >> >> >>>>company so be it.
> >>> >> >> >>>>Most people don't use the language that Barry has used to a
> dog
> >>> >but
> >>> >> >if he
> >>> >> >> >>>>wants to talk like that it a free country and God bless him.
> >>> >> >> >>>>Please except our apologies for any misunderstanding and
> thanks
> >>> >for
> >>> >> >you
> >>> >> >> >>>input.
> >>> >> >> >>>>pagefix@ao*
> >>> >> >> >>>>
> >>> >> >> >>>>
> >>> >> >> >>>--
> >>> >> >> >>>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
> >>> >> >`techdiver@aq*.co*'.
> >>> >> >> >>>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> >>> >> >`techdiver-request@aq*.co*'.
> >>> >> >> >>>
> >>> >> >> >>
> >>> >> >> >>
> >>> >> >> >>
> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> >> >> >> Learn About Trimix at
> >>http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/trimix.html
> >>> >> >> >>
> >>> >> >> >>
> >>> >> >> >>
> >>> >> >> >
> >>> >> >> >
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >>
> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> >> >>  Learn About Trimix at
> >>http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/trimix.html
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> --
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