>I am tired of this constant negative approach to issues concerning
>rebreathers

Jay,

I somehow picture you falling asleep  over your computer, struggling to
pound out the last few exhausted keystrokes of admonition. It brings to mind
images of the neurotic robot in the famous Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
who constantly repeated the refrain "I'm so depressed".

Perhaps we should sit down with tea and crumpets and enjoin our ourselves in
a polite and scholarly discussion enfused with the spirit of  brotherly love
and rebreather technology. Then again how could you trust my colleagues on
the WKPP not to rudely spill tea on you and use "harsh and insensitive"
language, which might hurt your feelings and detract from the lofty
discussion?

Now let's see here, applying rebreathers in extended range extreme exposure
mixed gas overhead diving has little to no relevance to their application in
openwater usage?  Issues such as gas supply redundancy, decompression,
bailout, gear configuration, bouyancy management and inter team communcation
are just so many tangential irrelevancies, Yes?

Oh forgive me Jay, I am just having a little "WKPP rant" here. I'm sorry I
didn't take enough ibuprofen this morning and the coffee is caffeine free.
You can just delete this or forward it over to the
"WKPPranting@me*.co*".

To be more specific why don't you ask Jess NICELY to spell out "his
procedures". But please be more detailed.  Would you like to know what he
does prior to diving a mile out underground at 300ft, during the dive, after
the dive or would you care to have him list the reasons behind the
conifugration of gear which gives him a sufficient survivability confidence
level with a rebreather to perform such a dive? Would you like him to tell
you why he considers a DPV to be as much a part of his life support system
as the rebreather and perhaps if you are nice he will tell you how you can
configure your rebreather to optimize it for use with not one, but three
dpvs at the same time.  Ask him what his specific procedure is when the gas
addition system fails and his scooter gets caught in the line at the same
time his light fails.  While this has never happened I can assure you that
Jess has thought about it and has an answer and a procedure. Oh yes, please
ask him why he would even think about using a rebreather in the first place.
(Notice that I use the term "rebreather" generically).

Just some suggestions, Jay.  BTW thankyou again for the $12,000 in equipment
and technical assistance. I'm afraid this was a bit before my time, but
thanks anyway.  I hate to be ingrateful. I will place a request into the
Director to name a room after you. Something other than Chupacabra, though.

Best regards and Happy New Year,

Bill Mee

-----Original Message-----
From: Jay K. Jeffries <bottomgun@mi*.co*>
To: Jess Armantrout <armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*>; diver@ch*.ne*.au*
<diver@ch*.ne*.au*>
Cc: rebreather@nw*.co* <rebreather@nw*.co*>
Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 9:31 PM
Subject: RE: Prism Dives


>I am tired of this constant negative approach to issues concerning
>rebreathers (and way to much focus on cave issues for the proportion of
open
>water rebreather users on the list).  While this particular thread probably
>could use discussion to better understand the decisions and trade-offs made
>for this dive, it could be accomplished in a much more conducive manner.  I
>am all for free discussion of issues that will forward rebreather
technology
>and the associated community but the steady emails from a few individuals
>can be easily perceived as attacks by many and stifles the ready flow of
>information.  Unfortunately, it appears that these few individuals are all
>members of the WKPP...this method of communication greatly detracts from
the
>many accomplishments of the WKPP.  It would be great to have a separate
list
>for caver diatribes maybe titled "WKPP rants" so we wouldn't have to
>constantly hit the delete key.
>
>Jess calls for the posting of the procedures for this dive but this seems a
>little hypocritical...after many requests for the posting of the WKPP's
over
>the years, we have yet to see anything.  While this email may also appear
as
>a hypocritical counter-attack, I have been a firm believer in the
ecological
>goals of the team.  During previous employment, I provided support to the
>WKPP in the form of a grant of $12,000+ in equipment and rendered technical
>consultation to various team members.  My only wish is that they moderate
>their rhetoric.
>
>Respectfully,
>Jay K. Jeffries
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rebreather-request@nw*.co*
>[mailto:rebreather-request@nw*.co*]On Behalf Of Jess Armantrout
>Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 7:38 PM
>To: diver@ch*.ne*.au*
>Cc: rebreather@nw*.co*
>Subject: Re: Prism Dives
>
>Post your procedures.  This is what we need to be talking about.
>
>Jess
>-----Original Message-----
>From: diver@ch*.ne*.au* <diver@ch*.ne*.au*>
>To: Jesse Armantrout <armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*>
>Cc: rebreather@nw*.co* <rebreather@nw*.co*>
>Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 5:46 PM
>Subject: Re: Prism Dives
>
>
>>At 13:14 4/01/99 -0600, you wrote:
>>>Folks,
>>>I really think we need to start some serious dialog about rebreathers in
>>>overhead environments, particularly bailout.
>>>
>>>Matt, could you have exited the cave from the point of furthest
>penetration
>>>on the 30 cu ft?  And how much redundancy did you add to the team?
>>>
>>>We are entering a bold new era, but the old rules need to apply.  You
have
>>>to be able to get yourself and the team out when everything goes to shit.
>>>To date, only one group
>>
>>You must be one of those Americans that think National and World Wide is
>the
>>same thing. Like your World Series Baseball with only US teams. Don't
>forget
>>Oliver Isler who taught the WKPP all they know about rebreathers ;)
>>Check out http://www.chilli.net.au/~diver/ginnie98.html
>>
>>Scott
>>
>>
>> has procedures in place that address that.
>>>
>>>Trout
>>>
>>>----------
>>>> From: Garvey, Matt <garvey@ca*.co*>
>>>> To: 'Rebreather List' <rebreather@nw*.co*>
>>>> Subject: Prism Dives
>>>> Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 1:07 PM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well after several hours of test diving in the lab and in the springs
>>>> and cavern zones of Ocala and Gainesville; I took a Prism Topaz on it's
>>>> first recreational dive.  And an excellent dive it was.
>>>>
>>>> Wednesday we had spent six hours in the water at Ginnie Springs with
two
>>>> pre-production Topaz's doing some tests and getting some film in the
>>>> Grand Ballroom and the Devils Eye. As result of the two units
performing
>>>> so well, I decided to take a rig on the midnight dive on New Years Eve
>>>> into the Devils Ear.  I configured the rig with twin 19scf bottles: one
>>>> as O2, one as Diluent. I carried a waist mounted 30 scf as bailout.  It
>>>> would come to pass that I wasn't so happy about this configuration of
>>>> the bailout and I shifted the 30 to side-mount during the dive.
>>>>
>>>> The plan was to do the Ear to the Lips, up to the Park Bench and make
>>>> the Bone Tunnel Jump, through the Big room and back on to the Main
Line.
>>>>  The breather functioned extremely well, no discernable breathing
>>>> resistance, the PO2 setpoint was 1.35 and the highest it went was 1.4,
>>>> granted the maximum decent was a four minute drop from 60' to 100' and
>>>> that was when it spiked.  Having done most of my CCR, open water dives
>>>> on MK16's, diving the Topaz with breathing bags, while quite
>>>> conformable, still are a bit interesting, especially during the rapid
>>>> changes in depth as we saw during this dive.  Practice makes perfect
and
>>>> that's all I'll say.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, we turned the dive on another team member's thirds (Open
Circuit
>>>> Diver), about 50 feet from rejoining the main line, back through the
>>>> Bone Tunnel, back out through the Key Hole and the Lips and out through
>>>> the Ear.  Total dive time 48 minutes, about 1000 linear feet
>>>> penetration, Max Depth 99', total O2 used: 3 scf, total Diluent used: 5
>>>> scf.
>>>>
>>>> Matt Garvey
>>>> Proj. Eng.
>>>> Carleton Technologies Inc.
>>>> Tampa, FL
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

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