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Stone has yet another problem. The seven year old version of DCAP used =
in the Cis Lunardos not specify the correct oxygen partial pressures for =
the intermediate stops. Back when the WKPP used the DCAP generated =
tables even George got bent. Fancy that.

One of the big problems with very long exposures at the Wakulla type =
depths is the fact that you think you have successfully completed your =
hours of deco only to find out that you are bent either at the 10 ft =
stop or shortly after you emerge from the water. The pressure tends to =
mask the symptoms until it is too late. At the microscopic level you are =
dealing with ruptured capillaries, localized edema, platelet clusters, =
fat globules, bone marrow and all form of cellular debris floating =
around your circulatory system. A real nasty mess. The bubbles, formed =
from the botched deep stops among other reasons, are not going to be =
recompressed during the normal chamber treatment schedule. The chamber =
treatment and elevated oxygen partial pressure assist in getting oxygen =
to the damaged ischemic tissues, but following these treatments the =
damage is still there. Deep recompressions can further exacerbate the =
tissue damage. When this damage happens to be localized around the =
spinal column you are looking at a serious situation.=20

This type of tissue damage not only requires hyperbaric treatment, but =
various forms of pharmaceutical interventions such as =
anti-inflammatories. These treatments must be administered by and =
monitored by a physician, not some volunteer "chamber operator".

The fact of the matter is that diving in Wakulla Springs is not much =
different from commercial saturation diving. Unfortunately, for Stone =
and especially for his divers, it is not possible for them to get into =
the transfer chamber at a depth where a truly differential decompression =
can be effected. The divers still must spend hours transitioning from =
the deep stops to the intermediate level (70ft). Despite all of the yip =
yap about decompression schedules and other techno goobery, most people =
(technical divers etc.) have never really put these theoretical =
schedules to the litmus test and can not predict how their bodies will =
respond to the decompression from the extreme exposures.

For years it was a familiar refrain, when people experienced symptoms of =
DCS, to hear how precisely the schedules were complied with and gee whiz =
what bad luck that I=92m bent.=20

I have to agree with George that the worst may yet be to come for the =
USDCT divers. Hopefully, this does not happen, but based on the complete =
disregard for everything we have attempted to convey to Stone and =
company I will not be surprised.

Bill







>Delivered-To: wwm@sa*.ne*
>From: KVI <kirvine@sa*.ne*>
>To: "Cost effective home improvement" <freeattic@co*.ci*.uf*.ed*>
>Subject: Stone's Guys Fear the Deco
>Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:12:15 -0500
>Sender: Maiser@co*.ci*.uf*.ed*
>Reply-To: kirvine@sa*.ne*
>Organization: DIR
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-KIT (Win95; U) (via Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS))
>Comments: Originally To: freeattic@co*.ci*.uf*.ed*
>Comments: Originally CC: cavers@cavers.com
>
>We are hearing that Stone's guys are genuinely afraid of the
>decompression from these dives at Wakulla. I had thought they were just
>not wanting to get cold or whatever, but our sources tell us that these
>guys are really SCARED of this. The scariest thing to me about deco at
>Wakulla is the fear of getting to Ocala and not being able to get a =
room
>at Steinbrenner's Ramada.
>
> We have taken this deco business for granted over the last few
>years, and now think nothing of incurring massive bottom times, and =
just
>doing the deco - anyplace, not only at Wakulla. We just did a monster
>dive in Cheryl, and we did not even put in the troughs - no need for
>only doing 140 minutes at 220.
>
> All I can assume is that these guys are not fit for this kind of
>diving, have not ever done nay of it, have no idea what to expect, are
>complete wimps, and are experiencing all of the warning signs of =
serious
>decompression sickness which is about to manifest itself in some
>horrible permantent injury as soon as they actually do a real dive in
>there.
>
> I sure would not want to be paralyzed or killed,lose bladder
>control, lose use of a limb, or suffer brain damage and end up like
>Bruic, but then this is not a real high proablility with me or any of
>the WKPP regulars.=20
>
> Here is the rub: what these guys do not know is that deco is not
>at all understood by anyone they are getting their information from.
>They do not realize that the correct shape and shorter durations of =
deco
>are in fact far safer. They do not realize that deco in a chamber WILL
>SOLVE NONE OF THESE PROBLEMS, and will only give them more time to =
think
>about the horrible inflictions that they will suffer anyway, as they
>wake up in the middle of the night after the dive to find that they can
>not feel one hand, or that they have pissed in their bunk or go to =
stand
>up and find that they keep falling over.
>
> In fact, the chamber tends to mask these symptoms until it is too
>late - ask the oil guys. Alton is constantly representing some horribly
>maimed diver who felt great until he got out of the chamber, onlyh to
>find out too late that he should not have been diving ( just like
>Stone's band of tough guys). Recompressing at that stage is futile, as
>the irreversible damage done to the nervous system and swollen tissues
>will only hope to be partially treated by intense oxygen therapy, and
>relief will be only short lived. That will require personel not on hand
>at Wakulla. The drugs and treatment that must be applied to the spine
>and brain are not well understood by the "volunteers" operating Stone's
>equipment, nor are they well understood even in the hopoitals at
>Tallahassee. You need to get to Miami or Morgan City for that one.
>
> Even worse will be the threat of accident dealing with a chamber
>or untrained operators, lets say like Chris Brown. How would you like =
to
>have this beauty operating a decompression chamber with you inside it? =
I
>have a feeling that these guys are about to experience a rude =
awakening.
>They have two or four dives and one down already. I will bet they can
>not make it past the end of the month without injuring evey last one of
>these guys, and we all know in our hearts what is really coming. This
>cluster is headed for a real disaster.
>
>
>--- Freeattic list subscriptions/removals should be sent to
>--- kens@ac*.ne*.
>
>



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<P>Stone has yet another problem. The seven year old version of DCAP =
used in the=20
Cis Lunardos not specify the correct oxygen partial pressures for the=20
intermediate stops. Back when the WKPP used the DCAP generated tables =
even=20
George got bent. Fancy that.</P>
<P>One of the big problems with very long exposures at the Wakulla type =
depths=20
is the fact that you think you have successfully completed your hours of =
deco=20
only to find out that you are bent either at the 10 ft stop or shortly =
after you=20
emerge from the water. The pressure tends to mask the symptoms until it =
is too=20
late. At the microscopic level you are dealing with ruptured =
capillaries,=20
localized edema, platelet clusters, fat globules, bone marrow and all =
form of=20
cellular debris floating around your circulatory system. A real nasty =
mess. The=20
bubbles, formed from the botched deep stops among other reasons, are not =
going=20
to be recompressed during the normal chamber treatment schedule. The =
chamber=20
treatment and elevated oxygen partial pressure assist in getting oxygen =
to the=20
damaged ischemic tissues, but following these treatments the damage is =
still=20
there. Deep recompressions can further exacerbate the tissue damage. =
When this=20
damage happens to be localized around the spinal column you are looking =
at a=20
serious situation. </P>
<P>This type of tissue damage not only requires hyperbaric treatment, =
but=20
various forms of pharmaceutical interventions such as =
anti-inflammatories. These=20
treatments must be administered by and monitored by a physician, not =
some=20
volunteer "chamber operator".</P>
<P>The fact of the matter is that diving in Wakulla Springs is not much=20
different from commercial saturation diving. Unfortunately, for Stone =
and=20
especially for his divers, it is not possible for them to get into the =
transfer=20
chamber at a depth where a truly differential decompression can be =
effected. The=20
divers still must spend hours transitioning from the deep stops to the=20
intermediate level (70ft). Despite all of the yip yap about =
decompression=20
schedules and other techno goobery, most people (technical divers etc.) =
have=20
never really put these theoretical schedules to the litmus test and can =
not=20
predict how their bodies will respond to the decompression from the =
extreme=20
exposures.</P>
<P>For years it was a familiar refrain, when people experienced symptoms =
of DCS,=20
to hear how precisely the schedules were complied with and gee whiz what =
bad=20
luck that I’m bent. </P>
<P>I have to agree with George that the worst may yet be to come for the =
USDCT=20
divers. Hopefully, this does not happen, but based on the complete =
disregard for=20
everything we have attempted to convey to Stone and company I will not =
be=20
surprised.</P>
<P>Bill</P><FONT size=3D2>
<P> </P>
<P> </P>
<P> </P>
<P>>Delivered-To: </FONT><A href=3D"mailto:wwm@sa*.ne*"><FONT=20
size=3D2>wwm@sa*.ne*</FONT></A><FONT size=3D2><BR>>From: KVI =
<</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:kirvine@sa*.ne*"><FONT =
size=3D2>kirvine@sa*.ne*</FONT></A><FONT=20
size=3D2>><BR>>To: "Cost effective home improvement" =
<</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:freeattic@co*.ci*.uf*.ed*"><FONT=20
size=3D2>freeattic@co*.ci*.uf*.ed*</FONT></A><FONT=20
size=3D2>><BR>>Subject: Stone's Guys Fear the Deco<BR>>Date: =
Thu, 17 Dec=20
1998 19:12:15 -0500<BR>>Sender: </FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:Maiser@co*.ci*.uf*.ed*"><FONT=20
size=3D2>Maiser@co*.ci*.uf*.ed*</FONT></A><FONT =
size=3D2><BR>>Reply-To:=20
</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:kirvine@sa*.ne*"><FONT=20
size=3D2>kirvine@sa*.ne*</FONT></A><FONT =
size=3D2><BR>>Organization:=20
DIR<BR>>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-KIT (Win95; U) (via Mercury MTS v1.44 =

(NDS))<BR>>Comments: Originally To: </FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:freeattic@co*.ci*.uf*.ed*"><FONT=20
size=3D2>freeattic@co*.ci*.uf*.ed*</FONT></A><FONT =
size=3D2><BR>>Comments:=20
Originally CC: </FONT><A href=3D"mailto:cavers@cavers.com"><FONT=20
size=3D2>cavers@cavers.com</FONT></A><FONT
size=3D2><BR>><BR>>We =
are hearing=20
that Stone's guys are genuinely afraid of the<BR>>decompression from =
these=20
dives at Wakulla. I had thought they were just<BR>>not wanting to get =
cold or=20
whatever, but our sources tell us that these<BR>>guys are really =
SCARED of=20
this. The scariest thing to me about deco at<BR>>Wakulla is the fear =
of=20
getting to Ocala and not being able to get a room<BR>>at =
Steinbrenner's=20
Ramada.<BR>><BR>> We have taken this deco business for granted =
over the=20
last few<BR>>years, and now think nothing of incurring massive bottom =
times,=20
and just<BR>>doing the deco - anyplace, not only at Wakulla. We just =
did a=20
monster<BR>>dive in Cheryl, and we did not even put in the troughs - =
no need=20
for<BR>>only doing 140 minutes at 220.<BR>><BR>> All I can =
assume is=20
that these guys are not fit for this kind of<BR>>diving, have not =
ever done=20
nay of it, have no idea what to expect, are<BR>>complete wimps, and =
are=20
experiencing all of the warning signs of serious<BR>>decompression =
sickness=20
which is about to manifest itself in some<BR>>horrible permantent =
injury as=20
soon as they actually do a real dive in<BR>>there.<BR>><BR>>
I =
sure=20
would not want to be paralyzed or killed,lose bladder<BR>>control, =
lose use=20
of a limb, or suffer brain damage and end up like<BR>>Bruic, but then =
this is=20
not a real high proablility with me or any of<BR>>the WKPP regulars.=20
<BR>><BR>> Here is the rub: what these guys do not know is that =
deco is=20
not<BR>>at all understood by anyone they are getting their =
information=20
from.<BR>>They do not realize that the correct shape and shorter =
durations of=20
deco<BR>>are in fact far safer. They do not realize that deco in a =
chamber=20
WILL<BR>>SOLVE NONE OF THESE PROBLEMS, and will only give them more =
time to=20
think<BR>>about the horrible inflictions that they will suffer =
anyway, as=20
they<BR>>wake up in the middle of the night after the dive to find =
that they=20
can<BR>>not feel one hand, or that they have pissed in their bunk or =
go to=20
stand<BR>>up and find that they keep falling over.<BR>><BR>>
In =
fact,=20
the chamber tends to mask these symptoms until it is too<BR>>late - =
ask the=20
oil guys. Alton is constantly representing some horribly<BR>>maimed =
diver who=20
felt great until he got out of the chamber, onlyh to<BR>>find out too =
late=20
that he should not have been diving ( just like<BR>>Stone's band of =
tough=20
guys). Recompressing at that stage is futile, as<BR>>the irreversible =
damage=20
done to the nervous system and swollen tissues<BR>>will only hope to =
be=20
partially treated by intense oxygen therapy, and<BR>>relief will be =
only=20
short lived. That will require personel not on hand<BR>>at Wakulla. =
The drugs=20
and treatment that must be applied to the spine<BR>>and brain are not =
well=20
understood by the "volunteers" operating =
Stone's<BR>>equipment, nor=20
are they well understood even in the hopoitals at<BR>>Tallahassee. =
You need=20
to get to Miami or Morgan City for that one.<BR>><BR>> Even worse =
will be=20
the threat of accident dealing with a chamber<BR>>or untrained =
operators,=20
lets say like Chris Brown. How would you like to<BR>>have this beauty =

operating a decompression chamber with you inside it? I<BR>>have a =
feeling=20
that these guys are about to experience a rude awakening.<BR>>They =
have two=20
or four dives and one down already. I will bet they can<BR>>not make =
it past=20
the end of the month without injuring evey last one of<BR>>these =
guys, and we=20
all know in our hearts what is really coming. This<BR>>cluster is =
headed for=20
a real disaster.<BR>><BR>><BR>>--- Freeattic list=20
subscriptions/removals should be sent to<BR>>--- </FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:kens@ac*.ne*"><FONT=20
size=3D2>kens@ac*.ne*</FONT></A><FONT=20
size=3D2>.<BR>><BR>><BR></P></FONT></DIV></BODY></
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